Nonprofit Hub Radio
Whether starting a nonprofit or taking an existing cause to the next level, The Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast is about breaking down how nonprofits can grow. Each episode features an interview with a sector star with insight, stories, or ideas that can take your nonprofit from good to excellence. Join host Meghan Speer every week to make your good go further!
Nonprofit Hub Radio
Unlocking the Power of Crypto for Charitable Giving
Curious about how cryptocurrency can revolutionize nonprofit fundraising? This episode is for you. Meghan Speer sits down with Pat Duffy, CEO and co-founder of The Giving Block, who unveils his journey from pharmaceuticals to pioneering crypto donations in the nonprofit world. Discover how nonprofits can effortlessly convert crypto donations into US dollars, avoiding the technicalities of holding or trading cryptocurrencies, and learn practical strategies for integrating crypto into your fundraising toolkit. Don't miss this transformative conversation that could elevate your fundraising efforts to new heights.
Pat shares the compelling story of how The Giving Block emerged to solve the challenges nonprofits face in accepting crypto donations, along with a simplified breakdown of cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, making the concept accessible to everyone.
Get free nonprofit professional development resources, connections to cause work peers, and more at https://nonprofithub.org
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Speaker 2:Welcome back to the Nonprofit Hub podcast. I'm your host, megan Spear, and along with me today is Pat Duffy, who's the CEO and co-founder of the Giving Block. So excited to dig into this conversation on crypto because I feel like it's a topic that we do get a lot of questions about and you are certainly the expert in the matter, so I'm excited to dig in, pat. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 2:So I was telling you a little bit before we got on here that I, for me personally this conversation is two and a half years in the making Because I ended up having to present about crypto for nonprofits at a kind of a collaborative meeting for nonprofit leaders two and a half years ago, and when I initially said that I was interested in the topic, I did not mean that I was going to present on it. The agenda came out and not only was I presenting on it, but you were on the attendee list and I thought, well, this is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Why would we? Let me talk about something.
Speaker 2:I don't know when Pat Duffy is going to be in the room, but I've never been so happy that you were not able to attend a conference. I was really excited to not have you there, but I feel like I still have some of the same questions about crypto for nonprofits today that I did two and a half years ago. So excited to dig into this with you. Start off and introduce yourself to our audience. Give us a little background about your work in the nonprofit space, as well as the giving block and what you guys are up to.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely. So no technical background. I started off coming out of school with a poli sci degree, worked with pharmaceutical companies. Perfect timing was right when the opioid crisis started. I was like a month into that and I was like this is the perfect industry to be working for so easy to sleep, very cool. But no, I worked there for a couple months through that and I I was like this doesn't feel like the coolest career trajectory and I ended up moving over to one of the non-profits that we worked with because we did alliance development. So it was a lot of working with patient organizations to go to capitol hill and lobby for drugs to be listed and medicare part d or trying to get nih funding uh, clinical pathways, the FDA stuff like that. So I ended up at the Lupus Foundation, which was one of the volunteer health associations, and I got brought in as the integration director, which was they had a new CEO who was figuring out how to run nonprofits and needed a number. Two came as a pharma consultant and we got to really reconstruct how the fundraising priorities worked and I learned pretty quickly how nonprofits operated, how to build a fundraising plan, prioritize all that stuff. So it was a great crash course and right around that time I had a friend who got me into trading crypto. Ultimately it became my co-founder, alex.
Speaker 3:Crypto ran up a bunch and we saw a couple of high profile donations happen. In the news Ashton Kutcher went on, ellen DeG l degenerate was sending crypto to her charity and 55 million dollars in bitcoin from an anonymous donor. The pineapple fund went to non-profits. 50 million went to universities. We were like, okay, this is cool. Um, we quickly found out there was a tax incentive to give this stuff, just like stocks. We tried to set my charity up to take it and quickly figured out that it's not easy. The products weren't designed for nonprofits. There were no tax receipts, no auto sell and that was it. We built a Wix site, started working on a product and the rest is history.
Speaker 2:I love it. So let's start this conversation at the very base, 101. I was over the weekend. I was talking to my parents, who do not understand anything about blockchain, do not understand crypto at all, and I was mentioning that we were going to do this podcast, and my dad was like, well, but what do they actually give them? What are they like? Is it a certificate? What do you give them? And I was like, oh wow, we are so far off the path, so let's pretend that you're talking to my dad instead. Help us understand the basic of what crypto is and what it is not yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3:I guess, first and foremost, a deep technical understanding of cryptocurrency is not necessary, though yeah, a lot of people at conferences try to make it seem like it is most people again trading not trading, but even owning stocks. Right, they're not uh deeply familiar with, like the federal reserve and the macroeconomic dynamics of different central banks. You know, raising and lowering interest rates, and then the company's doing stock splits and just all that stuff. So it's like cryptocurrency is, first and foremost, just a mode of investing. For a lot of people, the term cryptocurrency can be a bit of a misnomer. The original advent of it was it was supposed to be just a code-based monetary system. When they invented Bitcoin back in 2009, they wanted the ability to send a value asset back and forth between people without the need for intermediaries. So you don't need a bank, you don't need lawyers, you don't need people to update a spreadsheet or approve a transaction. You just need to know that money is going to get where it needs to go. So it's a bunch of computers that are cracking cryptographic riddles and when you unlock those riddles, it releases a message that says Pat would like to send Megan one Bitcoin or vice versa. They agree on that within a matter of seconds, the Bitcoin is in your wallet instead of mine and it shows up on the network. And if you wanted to change literally any of those transaction records, it doesn't take over more than half of the computers in the world that are operating on the Bitcoin network. So the bigger it's gotten, the more secure it gets. It's literally impossible to pretend money somewhere that it isn't, to cook the books like banks do where they pretend money went somewhere when it didn't, or to take money out of somebody's wallet. It's this really bulletproof digital financial system where things go where they're meant to go and they sit where they're meant to sit. No one can alter any of those things, so people have a lot of trust in it.
Speaker 3:When it comes to sending that to a charity, all that means for the nonprofit is there are people in the world at this point, the estimates are close to 600 million people worldwide that's the population of North America, for context who trade this stuff or own it or use it. Sometimes these people want to send it to a nonprofit because they don't pay taxes on the crypto. They donate just like a stock and all that means is that the nonprofit needs to have, ultimately some sort of wallet address, usually off of an exchange account, where the donor can send, almost like a bank transfer, and then that cryptocurrency just needs to sell for US dollars, just like if you had stock in a Fidelity account. In this case it's an automatic program. So to a charity, it's really giving people who use this stuff and trade it, are interested in it, the ability to send it to them and then, just knowing that it's automatically going to convert to the US dollars that the charity ultimately uses, they don't need to worry about price volatility.
Speaker 3:What to do with it? Will it go up, will it go down? Which ones do we take all that good stuff?
Speaker 2:So let me ask a question as a follow-up to that, because we are currently, as you and I are recording this and it won't come out for a couple of weeks, but as you and I are recording this, we've got a lot of headlines about stocks that are plummeting and a lot of volatility in the markets. Does that impact crypto, or what does the market look like on that side?
Speaker 3:Yeah, big time. So Bitcoin, the top cryptocurrency. When it was invented, it's supposed to be like a store of value, right? It's supposed to be kind of outside of that ecosystem. The reason for that is you can't make more of it. So one of the beautiful parts of this code-based system that no one can alter is there's a set number of units, so that scarcity is part of why it's so valuable, and people are like how come one Bitcoin is worth $50,000, $60,000, $70,000 at one point in time? It's because, just like gold or real estate, there's scarcity to it. That's natural, and because it's a bulletproof code system that no one can alter, people can have the equivalent of gold but be able to move it anywhere in the world in a matter of seconds, enter and exit those positions with a lot of liquidity. So it's a really powerful financial instrument.
Speaker 3:However, because there's so many people betting on the price going in one direction or the other, it doesn't always operate like a store of value. It tends to be correlated to things like the stock market and the macroeconomic environments. If there's more money going into investments, cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, ethereum, etc. Tend to go up, and when the market is shaky, in the same way people will run from stocks and try to move into things like bonds or cash to ride out that volatility. People will do the same in cryptocurrency. So it's not a one-to-one correlation. There's times where crypto is going up and stock market is going down, and vice versa. It's not a one-to-one correlation. There's times where crypto is going up and stuff where it's going down, and vice versa.
Speaker 3:But, generally speaking, a strong macro economic environment is bullish for cryptocurrencies, for sure. And is that where we are right now? Would you say it's a bit of a mixed bag. What's interesting is my friends and family and folks I only get texts from them when there's a moment like this where Bitcoin was at like $,000 a unit and then it goes to like 50,000. And they're like oh, you must have gotten like crushed and it's like. I don't like that type of movement in the market, of course, but Bitcoin is up, I think like 95% in the last 12 months still Like it's on the long term.
Speaker 3:People who have held cryptocurrency for extended periods this is not financial advice also, like anything can go away or get crushed, but it's outperformed every other asset class over the last five years 10 years has been the top performing asset class.
Speaker 3:That beats stocks, real estate, everything else. If you only buy it when it's in the news, we're probably at or near all time highs and then if you sell things when they're going down because you're scared, it's probably not the type of investing for you. If you like to buy a little bit over a large period of time, averaging into it and you hold it through periods of volatility, it's done a really good job. There's like $2 trillion or so invested in cryptocurrency today, so it's a big asset class. On the year, cryptocurrencies have done pretty good overall, of course, about doubling. But yeah, recently, with that carry trade in Japan and some of the stuff we're seeing in the markets, there's been kind of a softening of the sentiments and I guess we'll see with the US jobs report and then the Fed cutting interest rates and macro factors to definitely push it one direction or the other.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so before we move into kind of how strategies that nonprofits need to be thinking about around that, let's ask one final question on the technical side, if you will. So the ones that you've referenced so far would be Bitcoin and Ethereum. I feel like I've seen headline after headline popping off with Dodge, and we're constantly bringing new ones to the market. What is your stance on trying new versus sticking to kind of the standard the ones that started the game, if you will?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't, largely. I don't think nonprofits should be making those choices. You definitely can if you're an expert. If there are certain cryptocurrencies that aren't listed on major exchanges but you want to set up a wallet and accept them because you're like really dialed in For some reason, you think it's a community that's worth engaging in, fundraising from that's like 0.1 percent of non-profits probably who are in that boat. Generally speaking, all of these cryptocurrencies the major ones at least are traded on big exchanges and these exchanges have as many, if not more, users than traditional exchanges. So Coinbase has more users than Fidelity, charles Schwab, e-trade, massive markets.
Speaker 3:So what we do with our solution to put this all into context is we set up an account for nonprofits that's tied to one of these exchange accounts and then within that account there's all these different cryptos that have order books, right, buy and sell orders. So if you were buying and selling crypto in there, you could move into and out of that investment position and we hook that up to a donation form that's on the nonprofit site and a donor would go into that donation form, pick any of the cryptocurrencies that that exchange offers and then it would present a wallet address. The donor would hit send and what's happening then in a matter of seconds is the crypto is transferring into that account, and then the program that we have says is there a balance? If so, just sell it for whatever it's worth in US dollars at this moment. That way, the nonprofit not only doesn't have to figure out which cryptocurrencies it should list or doesn't.
Speaker 3:These major exchanges make that choice, but they also don't have to determine do I hold this cryptocurrency? Do I not hold it? How do I sell it? When do I sell it? It's a 24-hour market, so any person in the world can send you any of the cryptocurrencies that the exchange has to offer and no matter when it comes in or how it comes in, it instantaneously sells for US dollars, which then push to a bank account. So, as far as the nonprofit's concerned, it's a gateway for donors who want to give all the top cryptocurrencies to send through an exchange that's heavily regulated and secure, and US dollars come out on the other end elevate your fundraising strategy effortlessly with donor box, the online fundraising platform that streamlines your operations, amplifies donations and delivers a user-friendly experience for your supporters.
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Speaker 2:From the nonprofit side, then, right, somebody who is savvy enough to be dealing in crypto, who has the resources then to turn that around and donate it to a nonprofit, is not the you know. Everybody kind of talks about the regular donor who's on their donation page, maybe in that 55 and over female category, who's, you know, impacting these decisions. That's not who's in the crypto market, right? So when nonprofits have these strategies to deal with their traditional donors, their ideal donors, how do these folks differ and what do nonprofits need to be thinking about from a strategy standpoint in engaging with donors like that?
Speaker 3:It's such a good question. So, for starters, you're touching on something like who are these donors who could be giving this way and then, kind of what channels would they be coming through, because that really dictates whether or not you accept it. Who are these donors who could be giving this way, and then, kind of what channels would they be coming through, because that really dictates whether or not you accept it. And then, if you do accept it, where that option is presented and how, and then strategically targeting or appealing to particular donors in your donor base all the way to earning net new donors. Like you're saying, if your donor base is aging, or you're trying to rebalance it in a way. That's like where you don't get demolished by the Great Wall Transfer, and kind of whatever nonprofit is focused on. Like where does crypto and kind of investment based fundraising fit in? 94% of crypto users it depends on the poll you look at, but 90 ish let's call it are millennials and Gen Z's. Like when you look at Gen Z's even, for instance, it's the most common mode of investing, like it's more common than stocks, which is a compelling trend, right when you think about where the world is heading. Very interesting More than half of crypto wealth is held by Gen X and baby boomers. So when we talk about just the wealth disparity and the fundraising, and when you look at a nonprofit, why is the average donor like the one I talked to in the last webinar we just did it was average donor 74 in that donor base? Why is that happening? It's because it makes sense for nonprofits right now when you're stuck in an annual cycle, an annual budget, or you have to reset and fundraise from scratch every 12 months to focus on the people who have the most money and give the highest average gift size. So nonprofits are trying to break out of that right Like you're focused on these older donors who transfer the highest amounts of money right now while not getting left behind as that great ball transfer intersection continues to roll out.
Speaker 3:Over half of the donations we get also come from that demographic those older donors. Because it's 95% of hedge funds either have crypto diversified into it. A lot of these older high net worth individuals. They have some and it's not like most their money's in. It's probably a small 75% diversification, but if it goes up more than their stocks, that's what they get because that gives you the best tax incentive and because of crypto's volatility, that happens a lot.
Speaker 3:So what nonprofits need to figure out, I guess, first and foremost, is in terms of exposure to your audience. Younger donors should be seeing the crypto option a lot more just because they're more likely to have it, but older donors systematically need to see it sometimes and just be aware that it exists. It's not like you're going to run a crypto fundraising campaign for older donors. It's just as a percentage of a diagram overlap. It's not there. But if you're a nonprofit who's midsize and above, you certainly have older, high net worth individuals with piles of cryptocurrency and it's just a matter of market timing when it makes sense for them. So they better be aware. So that's the first thing that needs to get figured out.
Speaker 3:And then the second piece is the fundraising avenue. All the way down to the gift acceptance pages, there were a lot of nonprofits before we started doing this who were adding a donate crypto option onto a page somewhere on their site or even tacking it into their donate page. There are not people who are looking to send you 20 bucks a month with a credit card and then decide to give you Bitcoin instead. Yeah, like that's not how this works. The average gift size is $5,000 to $15,000, depending on the calendar year. These are people who have major tax offset type gifts. It's significant.
Speaker 2:It's 30 to 80 times larger.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, because it's like stocks, it's a, it's a cap gains offset, so there's major tax implications and considerations. So they need to see it on your ways to give and it needs to be discoverable from the donate page, but kind of given its own channel. I would say, if I can go to your site and I'm looking for ways to give you money and I can clearly see crypto, stock, daf, like these things are present options. And then if you're sending me things like capital campaign emails or a direct mailer, I should bump into the fact that this is an option for me. Slowly, over time, young donors should see it pretty often and older donors should, at the very least, I think, have it presented every so often.
Speaker 2:Interesting. That's a much larger gift than I would have expected to be kind of the base level, that's interesting yeah.
Speaker 3:It's the top performing asset. Yeah, I think a lot of like 90% of millennial millionaires are crypto traders at this point already, so the wealth concentration is pretty wild. If you just look at average income for crypto users $111,000. So it's higher than any city in America, Average gift sizes again like $5,000 to $15,000. And then the appreciation of the asset class over time it's outperformed everything really significantly. So, especially for the folks who've been in crypto for five years plus, just the wealth creation that's happened for those younger donors is pretty wild.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's interesting. So you mentioned something. I kind of want to circle back. So I had Mitch Stein from Chariot over on the podcast and one of the things that he and I were talking about was, as nonprofits wrap donor is in a DAF, right, they don't have to disclose, and so it breaks the funnel of like. Well, I want to move you from this to this, to this. If somebody is donating in crypto, do they also have that anonymous capability? Do you always know where it came from? Or is it similar to a DAF, where you do have the ability to stay completely off the nonprofit's radar and just be a supporter?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so this is up to the nonprofit. So we have an anonymous option that could be turned on or off on donation form. So it's just like anything else and DAFs work this way. Now, because of Chariot, I used to be pretty anti-DAF-based fundraising because every nonprofit sent donors off their site.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was just like yeah, go log in somewhere else and hopefully hit a push transaction to me at some point in the future and then also I thought it created a bad cycle where it's like you're getting these people to park money in daps, they get the tax incentive and now they could wait 40 years to grant it out, especially they're younger. But as soon as we we talked to mitchie at the charity team, we integrated them immediately. We have them as a product feature for clients who work with us, just because it's so great. If you send us your crypto, it's like oh, I already moved it into a DAF. It's like perfect, just click this button and send it anyway.
Speaker 3:But no, the anonymous option is. It's a misconception in the sector, because people used to use wallet addresses where you just put a Bitcoin wallet on your website and then anyone could send. There's no form or information collection, but ours is gated by a form where they have to enter their personal details. You can add an anonymous option where they can just tick a box and skip that form. A lot of nonprofits do give donors the anonymous option just because it's so much more efficient and some people like it, but that's totally up to the nonprofit. I'm a huge proponent of accepting anonymous gifts so long as the channel is safe. Right If they weren't accepting it through an exchange that checks blacklisted wallet addresses and sanctioned countries and you know you're getting a safe donation from a safe person, then I would use the form as a backstop. But because the solution is secure and the process is secure, I like to give donors the option, just because I don't want to lose 500 grand because someone wants to protect their personal information.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think most organizations would agree with you. No one's going to say no to the 500k. So in general, I think our audience here at Nonprofit Hub tends to be, I would say, like smaller to midsize, some startup nonprofits. Right, a program like this and having crypto as a strategy as part of your plan likely could feel overwhelming to them. So if somebody was just starting out to try and figure out okay, we got to get our organization set up, got to figure out what our strategy is. We have to have a plan for accepting all of those things Obviously the answer could just be the giving block Great, but what are some things that they should consider? What are some things that like, what is maybe the first step that, even if somebody's in a startup org, what are some first steps that you would recommend?
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely Like this sounds very self-serving. Like you said, the giving block. I don't mean use the giving block as your solution immediately and that's your solve Like. I believe that obviously that's what we built, but I would say talking to the giving block or going on our website Like one of the biggest blockers ever is like these imaginary concerns that were very real concerns at one point but have been solved. And I know a lot of non-profits who have multi-year investigation processes going on because they're trying to solve a problem that's already been solved. Because they haven't talked to vendors or experts.
Speaker 3:Like there's people just spending four hours on a saturday doing research on which cryptocurrencies are legit or not, and like the exchange listing credit like solves for that. Or like what should go in the tax receipt, how do we issue it? How do we make sure it's compliant? What if it's an international versus domestic donor? Um, how do we sell this stuff right? Like what's going to be our policy for when we sell or when we don't sell, or if we add to the endowment. Like we bump into non-profits still every week? They're just the sales call process. Who are this? And we're like 80% of the things you're trying to figure out are already software. These are no longer concerns and they're now two years behind the eight ball. You don't have to move forward with the giving block or use the tool, even if you end up just setting up an account somewhere, like doing your own thing, like just talking to someone from my team or just going on the website reading blogs or how-to pages. We've spent six years aggregating that stuff, so like that's the big thing, not trying to do a bunch of independent research on how these things work and what is a blockchain and so many people get stuck in that investigation process.
Speaker 3:And then I would say the second thing is understanding the difference between your existing donors and net new. A lot of research and time and energy goes into where do I find crypto donors? Which crypto conferences do I go to? How to build a crypto following um trying to build profiles and construct it's just like it's. There's tens of millions of people in the us who use this stuff.
Speaker 3:Like, again, if you're mid-sized, plus, there's obviously tons of crypto overlap. If you're small, you might have to get more tactical, especially if you're small with an older donor base. Like there are areas where it doesn't make sense to be like super in on crypto. But really thinking about that spectrum, like, well, I could have a solution that's on my site in my ways to give menu that I then put at the bottom of capital campaign emails and major gift appeals, like, hey, here's one of our options and that could be like the whole thing and the solution automates everything and that's our whole fundraising strategy. We're not like running crypto campaigns or segmenting the audience, doing stuff like understanding that that's an option all the way to like a save the children where they've built this. You know eight figure crypto fundraising revenue channel and run crypto campaigns and crypto giving Tuesday and the HODL hope campaign, knowing your fundraising side of it, and then just kind of talking to an expert to make sure that, like you're not trying to come up with solutioning that's already been solved for.
Speaker 2:As we kind of wrap up our time, I have one question and I don't mean to ask you to get out your crystal ball here, but you had referenced earlier in the conversation the generational wealth transfer that is coming right. The wave that is coming here very shortly already started, but it's going to continue. In your best guess, certainly not again, not financial advice, we're not into that zone. But in your best guess or kind of, what do you see in the industry as that wealth transfer continues to take place? What's the impact on crypto as a viable option?
Speaker 3:I think, um so like right now, in terms of public donations that we can find like, we can find like a couple billion dollars worth of crypto getting donated. I think in the short term, that number is still highly suppressed by the fact that the average user is so young that I think their philanthropic journey is pretty immature and I think it's overlapped with this kind of disintermediation of working with professionals. So tax professionals, financial professionals a lot of these people are trading on Coinbase and Robinhood. They do their tax on TurboTax. I think, right now, from the nonprofit side, facing donors, though, few nonprofits are asking for crypto. We have of the infinite nonprofits out there, like as direct clients of the Giving Block we have 2,000. And then through integrations. But in terms of crypto fundraising programs, it's still a small sliver and even for the big ones, like we've saved the children, american Cancer Society, united Way Worldwide, st Jude, they're not doing that much crypto fundraising. I think the real number should be exponentially higher than that. If they were just telling donors hey, this is an option for you. Occasionally they open up the direct mail and there was a QR code there. How much money is really on the table? I think is highly suppressed. So that brings the baseline up, I think, quite a bit.
Speaker 3:Then you have these people, of course, who are higher income and then more financially literate, who overlap with this demographic. We just have so many millennials and gen z's who invest this way. I think they'll probably end up being larger recipients of the great wealth transfer. They usually come from those backgrounds, both in terms of generating more wealth and having a head start on other folks. They come from wealthier backgrounds.
Speaker 3:Um, the percentage of that their money that they invest in crypto proportionate to their parents and their grandparents is so overwhelmingly disproportionate that I think the flow of funds from traditional investment assets like into cryptocurrency should be fairly overwhelming, which, of course, boosts everything up Over time. I think it becomes one of those things where, again, if it's the main way that Gen Zs invest and the higher income you are, the more you invest and then this intersection of the great wealth transfer and the $73 trillion or whatever is going to heirs, it definitely feels like a perfect storm. I still think you'll end up with, even in those generations, probably more money in stocks than crypto, but I could easily see them being close to parity and, as long as people are donating tax optimized, giving methods like. There's no reason it can't be. You know, one of the largest contributors to the sector.
Speaker 2:I just was talking with somebody on a podcast earlier today about embracing change and the importance of embracing change in our thought processes, especially as nonprofit leaders. So this is just one more reason why that is so important, because the way we've always done it is not going to work in this scenario or in the long run that way. So, pat, if somebody wanted to find the resources that you'd mentioned on your website or they wanted to be following the Giving Block or connecting with you all to learn more, how do they do that? Yeah, number one thing I always recommend is just go following the Giving Block or connecting with you all to learn more. How do they?
Speaker 3:do that. Yeah, number one thing I always recommend is just go to thegivingblockcom and book a product demo and you can come in as uninformed as you like and just make it about you, right? Don't just talk to a member of my team and just like I have 18 questions and that's what this 30 minutes is for, and it's like, all right, that's what this 30 minutes is for and it's like, all right, all right, great. I think that's the best thing you can do, because there's people who get paid to have these conversations and have had them with hundreds, if not thousands, of nonprofits at this point. They've answered the same questions, they've troubleshot the same things. Like, just cut the line and get those things solved for so that I mean, that puts you six to 12 months. I that puts you 6 to 12 months ahead of the people who just start an online journey of slowly accumulating information. I think that's the best way to expedite it and then from there, you can poke around on our site or just poke around online learning about it.
Speaker 3:Really, focusing on what crypto means for nonprofits versus what crypto is in general. I'd say it's the other thing. There's a lot of people I've met at nonprofits who are studying what is blockchain and taking like blockchain education courses and again, it's really it's nothing to do. There's people out there who invest this way and if you know how to fundraise, just pick that option on and make it another way that you take money avoiding I guess. Yeah, getting bogged down and unnecessary education would be the number one thing, but yeah, the giving blockcom. It's our brainchild after six years of accumulating data and information, so I would always start there.
Speaker 2:Perfect. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate all this insight. It's been super interesting conversation. So definitely check out the Giving Block because they do have a lot of giant wealth of information to share. So, pat, thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks for having me. I want to hear your crypto presentation at some point. You got to send me the debt.
Speaker 2:We'll see about that. All right, pat. Thanks so much. We will see you next time on the Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast.