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Nonprofit Hub Radio
Whether starting a nonprofit or taking an existing cause to the next level, The Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast is about breaking down how nonprofits can grow. Each episode features an interview with a sector star with insight, stories, or ideas that can take your nonprofit from good to excellence. Join host Meghan Speer every week to make your good go further!
Nonprofit Hub Radio
Elevating Nonprofit Communication: Strategic Storytelling and Audience Engagement for Maximum Impact
Can strategic communication truly elevate a nonprofit's mission, or are there obstacles it simply can't overcome? Joins us to unravel the complexities of communication in the nonprofit sector with Olga Woltman, founder of Lemon Skies. From the necessity of aligning messaging with organizational goals to the challenge of engaging donors without a clear mission, we navigate the nuances of effective communication strategies. Together, we examine the essential components of a holistic communication plan and emphasize the importance of understanding audience needs to tailor messages for maximum impact. In our exploration of communication channels, social media platforms like TikTok come under scrutiny. Beyond the hype and economic influence, is TikTok truly valuable for nonprofit communication? We discuss the merits of owning your audience through reliable means like email and the difficulties of transitioning between platforms.
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Speaker 2:Welcome back to the Nonprofit Hub podcast. I'm your host, megan Spear, and joining me today is Olga Woltman, who's the founder of Lemon Skies. I am excited to chat with her in person because we've been LinkedIn connected for a while, but now we get to actually have a real life conversation. So, olga, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me. Megan Appreciate it. So tell the audience a little bit about yourself as kind of an introduction, and your journey in nonprofit work, before we really dig into the topic today around strategic communication.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I was actually reflecting on how I got into nonprofit sector and I think fundamentally I just believe in service and I believe in our ability to change things. We see and we need to be changed. I've really spent my entire professional career in nonprofit sector and various roles at agencies, within nonprofits, in-house, primarily focusing on fundraising, a lot of digital work and, of course, communications and marketing messaging. Those types of things really kind of give me joy, if you will. And then in my spare time I volunteer and I sit on the boards of a couple different nonprofits, both in our sector DMAW, special Olympics, virginia. So just really try to, you know, walk the walk, as they say.
Speaker 2:I love that. So the conversation at hand today is around strategic communication both what it is and what it is not, and digging really into what it looks like to have a good strategic communication, like holistic communication plan, and why that's so important. But this whole conversation came out because you had one of the best LinkedIn posts I've seen in quite some time and I it caught my attention one because it was Cinderella and I was very into it. But it was talking about what communication can do and what messaging can do versus what it can't. And I want to start with there's so many good points in this post. Go connect with Olga on LinkedIn and find it for yourself, because it's just fascinating.
Speaker 2:But one of the things that you say is that communications cannot turn little mice into additional staff to double your output. The opening one is communications isn't going to turn pumpkins into infrastructure to prop up operations. I mean preach Fantastic points. So talk to me a little bit about what inspired this post. Where did it come from? And then let's really dig into some of the what comms can do once they're good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I think in various steps of my professional journey, communication sometimes is looked at as almost like the fairy godmother, if you will, to stick with our analogy.
Speaker 3:And you know it is very true that strategic, brilliant communications can really do a lot to present your mission in a way that resonates with donors, give clarity, raise awareness, help advocate for the cause. So there's a lot of things that communications can do, but there's definitely a set of things where you know you can have the most brilliant communicator but it's really not a communications problem if you will. So, for example, if you don't have infrastructure to support your operations, I can develop a brilliant communication strategy, but if you don't have segmentation functionality to actually target the right audiences, or if your data is messy and flawed, no amount of communication strategy can save you from that. And similarly, you know you can be brilliant, but communications cannot overcompensate for a lack of resources. So it's sort of it's not a miracle worker. It can do a lot of things and I know sometimes it seems like we produce magic, but there's definitely a limit. You know you can't communicate your way out of not having the right resources or mission. That's not clear in its purpose.
Speaker 2:So there's some foundational pieces that need to be in place before communications comes in there has to be a clear mission and a clear purpose, because I do think, man, that tends to be a hang up for a lot of organizations we're not communicating effectively because we don't know what the goal is right. We don't understand what we're here for. So when you're working with somebody, if that is the problem, right, how? What are the steps? I'm curious about this whole process, for from how do we make sure that the communication is correct all the way through? What are the pieces that should be included in a holistic, strategic communication plan? Because I think a lot of times it's like just send an email, it's fine, or that has nothing to do with what we're saying on social media. All of the pieces don't tend to match. So I'm curious from your perspective, to like what those pieces are and how we start that process to make sure that our communication is effective.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So when I work with colleagues, peers, clients, organizations, it's really about asking a lot of questions and really really listening. So not asking and intending to respond, but really kind of teasing out those insights, Because usually, whether it's the founder, whether it's a mission person, the answers are there. You just have to really really pay attention. But to your question about strategic communications, it's really it's all about understanding the purpose who are we talking to and what are we trying to get them to? Which kind of point we're trying to advance them to?
Speaker 3:If you don't know answers to those questions, that's really kind of about strategic thinking, about where organization is going or where a particular program is going, because communications has to have a purpose. It's not just, it's not just about outputting something, just to put something out. It's taking your audience and bringing them along. Whether it's a particular action, whether it's increased awareness of different, different efforts your organization does. It could be multiple, multiple purposes, but if you don't have purpose, you you've really kind of don't have that what I'm describing as foundational piece in place, like, yeah, we don't just put out messages just to, we don't talk for the sake of talking. It needs to, it needs to have a reason to exist.
Speaker 2:I man, and so I come from a social media background, right, and so often I see posts from organizations which is like you clearly didn't have anything to say, Right, but somebody told them that they needed to be on Facebook every day and so out this with something, yes, with whatever, and I just sit there and I think what did you really like? This isn't helpful.
Speaker 2:No this isn't helpful. Consist't helpful. Consistency is good, yes, but if you don't actually have anything to say, just maybe just take a step back and then I think but how do we start knowing what to say, right and how? And start, because I do think there's that gets lost a lot of times of what we want to be communicating. So when we talk about things like social media or email, so often non-profits have so many diverse audiences that they're trying to talk to of what we want to be communicating. So when we talk about things like social media or email, so often nonprofits have so many diverse audiences that they're trying to talk to.
Speaker 2:So, yes, you have the donor development team that wants you to do nothing but ask like, please. Here's another donate link. Donate link. Donate link. You might have folks who are trying to recruit volunteers. You might have an event coming up, but you also have constituents that you're serving that are following your page as well. Talk to me a little bit about the balance of all of the types of messaging that a nonprofit has and how we can, kind of like strategically think through maintaining that balance so that you're talking to everybody and nobody gets ignored.
Speaker 3:Right. Well, you ask really excellent and very thought provoking questions, so thank you for that. I think it starts with auditing where your people are, because not everybody exists in every channel and you know, frankly, it's not just about what and where you say, but it's also where do you need to just kind of back off and you know if your audience is not on Instagram and you're not a cause that's visually appealing, because some aren't, maybe, you know, maybe that's really a wasted effort. So you know, I just don't believe in doing anything for the sake of doing it. So it's really kind of understanding where your different audiences reside and engage with you. And then to your point about different audiences and different purposes and engage with you. And then to your point about different audiences and different purposes it's a balance and that balance is achieved in bringing your different stakeholders in and really kind of having that dialogue to understand, because you know there's certain times of year where development is going to be a priority and you know we all know end of December, development kind of takes the front seat. It's understanding where some of your program people are coming in from.
Speaker 3:There's also this funny tension between development and marketing, where marketing is all about spotlighting victories and positive things and all the things are going great and development knows very well that no one writes you a check to congratulate you. You need to articulate the need, you need to articulate what's not being done. So it's just really kind of having maturity to bring everybody in and to kind of help steward the dialogue and not ignore everybody, but just really be thoughtful. What is for the greater good of this organization? And when somebody takes a front seat and when we need to compromise and you know it's not it's communications not playing a passive role of taking in. What do you need us to put out there? But really almost like traffic copying communications and different messaging that goes out.
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Speaker 2:I'm curious to hear your perspective, and I realize I am opening a can of worms and I'm going to acknowledge that up front.
Speaker 2:But as we sit here talking today, we are coming off what I would call a wild weekend in communication, where we saw TikTok go down for 12 hours and then reemerge, and now everybody's a little skeptical about who may or may not be taking over TikTok.
Speaker 2:I would love to get your thoughts one on how that's playing out. Tiktok, I would love to get your thoughts one on how that's playing out. But also you know so many folks have to your point what the channel is that you're going to be on. So many folks have built TikTok out to showcase a lot of those things, and so I'm wondering if there are a lot of folks at this stage starting to realize that building your tent on someone else's land is maybe a little more risky than you had anticipated. I think there's a lot of folks at least what I've seen in the LinkedIn conversations today there's a lot of folks who are starting to really see the need to grow email lists and not rely on those social channels. So, coming off of all of that, I would love to hear your perspective about what channels are important in a comms plan right now?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I mean I'm just going to come right out and say that personally, on a personal level, I would not be sad to see TikTok go, recognizing economic impact, recognizing that it does create livelihood for many people, but I think as a communications channel, yes, it does all of those things. But the primary thing I see TikTok do is elevate particular brands or particular products, a lot of times feeding into young and oftentimes children, youth and children products. And you know those products are promoted, they're bought, creating more revenue, and then that revenue is channeled right back into promoting more of these products. So it's almost like a self-perpetuating topic cycle. So I would not be sad to see it go and I think productivity among high school and middle schoolers would probably go way up. That said, I think that expression don't build your tent on somebody else's land. I mean, I think that's right. You have to hedge your bets and kind of understand the risks of. You know you can develop following an audience, but the second the channel goes away or falls out of favor, you are putting yourself at risk. So I think that's part of it.
Speaker 3:Email I don't see it as a panacea. It can certainly be helpful for organizations, charities, nonprofits. I'm not sure it fully substitutes for what consume, how consumers are taking in some of those videos, right Like it's just it's a different way of consuming information and I'm not sure it's a substitute. But I think you know creators that are excellent and excel at what they do. I do see them prevailing and you know creativity the cream will rise to the top. I've seen a lot of creators who use content across different platforms, so maybe they change it for, you know, instagram or for Facebook, but it is similar and we're starting to see more videos on LinkedIn, which I have mixed mixed bag reaction on. So I just think it's. It's the vehicle, the message, the content of it doesn't change and you know, when there's a vacuum, something will come and fill it, so I'm not overly distraught about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would agree with a lot of those sentences, but I think too a lot of times and this is to your point earlier communication has to have a goal in mind. Right To be strategic, it has to have a goal, and so often we rely on those social channels to drive to a specific donation page or a specific call to action, and I do tend to wonder how, if we would be better served to kind of dig in and like use that social platform as a call to join the email list and then think strategically about how we use email or drive to a specific blog page or something like that, again driving back to land we own to, to borrow the analogy. Is that a strategy that you have seen a lot of folks have success with? Is it something that we should consider? Is there a better option?
Speaker 3:You know, I think I think it's a little bit of a misperception that you can take somebody from a channel that they like and prefer, transition them to another channel. Fantastic point, yes, you know. I just think some people will never be your email responsive people. We have our preferences. So it's not just because we want them to be on email it doesn't mean that they will want to be on email and will engage with us.
Speaker 3:I think of it as more as carving out and it will make. It will make those people who want the very concrete measure probably a little bit crazy, but it's it's really kind of a battle for attention and it's a battle for recognition of our brand and what we stand for. And that transcends any channels. And you know it's not a direct response type of promotional effort and that's kind of where communications comes in. But you know, do they remember, you, do they understand what you do? And I think that you know that evolves if you're using different channels or different media. But you know, just because somebody is no longer has access to TikTok doesn't mean that goes away. So whether it's giving them options, it's being available where your audience is likely to be, whether it's email, whether it's another channel, whether it's mail, for that matter, right Like if we were to get a really old school mail and telefunding and all of those types of channels. So it's really looking at it through the lens of what your audience want and not where we would prefer to funnel them into.
Speaker 2:All right, that's a great answer. Yes, fantastic. I think so often like we get stuck in the okay, well, we have this many followers, but you're right, there are people who very much want the concrete answer of what does that mean? Great, but what are those followers doing and what do we? What do we want them to do? But you're right, if I'm connected to you on Instagram, I it doesn't mean I want to be on your email list.
Speaker 3:Yeah and Megan, I had this conversation with somebody you know about Instagram specifically and kind of how to advance the issue or particular topic, and I sort of said to them I'm not the same person on Instagram that I am on LinkedIn or on my professional email right or on my professional email. Right Like on Instagram, I'm looking for cats doing cute dances and, like I follow a number of influential raccoons and other. Like mammal, I'm not interested in being educated, I'm not interested in yeah. So it's the context as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's, that's great. I love that. Okay. So then, in the going all the way back to the original post that started this conversation about communication bibbidi-bobbidi-boo, not being magic Talk to me about some of the things that it can do If you have really like, come up with a good you're following a good strategic communication plan. What are some things that it can do Besides, you know, turning mice and pumpkins into things?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I think first and foremost it's relevance, right. So it's it's taking what you do. It has our missions and the work where you know our programs etc. There's a lot of different ways to approach them. So it really allows us to make the purpose of the organization relevant to the audience that we serve, kind of explaining the why, and that why might look different because any given program could have multiple reasons and multiple purposes. So it's really kind of helping them understand what's important about it and why it matters and aligning the work to their values.
Speaker 3:I think that's probably one of the most core, fundamental things that communications can do. There's sort of the very obvious engaging your audiences to volunteer or to advocate, like very, very specific, tangible outcomes. It's that brand building and I think brand gets misunderstood a lot. Brand is much more than visual identity. It's that again, that piece of their attention and piece of their understanding what you stand for is really important.
Speaker 3:Storytelling probably one of my favorite aspects of communications, which is really about translating kind of the data, the very cut and dry components, into much more engaging and, frankly, a way that we're wired to absorb information, something that we just get very emotionally invested in, is really important. I think it's about mobilizing communities. It can really kind of build movements, communications and kind of how we say the words, not to get completely esoteric here. But you look at some of these historical works I was studying with my son for his history class and kind of Karl Marx and you know what they wrote. And then lo and behold, 70 years later, those words really spurred some transformational changes for better or worse. We're not going to get into that here, but in a very different way. So the words have incredible power and that power transcends the medias. The ideas that are put out there, which is, you know, kind of the core of communication, can really transform how we live our lives, and in pretty fundamental ways, for better and for worse.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree. So if, if someone is listening today, let's say they're maybe the executive director or director of development or VP of advancement or any of those kind of titles a natural question if I am that person would be like well, how do I know if my communication is being strategic? How do I know if I'm doing a good job with this? So what are some questions or what are some things that that person could go look at? Today, like this afternoon I'm going to go do this, I'm going to check it out. What are some things that you look at in your audits or what would you suggest they take a look at to really decide if their communication is on track?
Speaker 3:Well, I think it starts with that listening component. When we talk about communications, a lot of times we focus on outbound message and what we put out, and not enough time is spent on kind of the feedback loop and how it's being received and what your audiences think. So you know kind of, first and foremost, picking up the phone or grabbing a coffee with one of your volunteers, one of your board leaders, or just even you know getting together with a group of supporters and trying to understand from their perspective. You know, what do they think of you? Are they aware of the things you're doing, what's working, what's not working, and that can take many different shapes, right. So there's a lot of opportunities in our day-to-day jobs to kind of take note of some of those things. So I think that's kind of a key aspect of it. And then, when I think of effective communications, it really begins and ends with empathy. And when I say empathy, it's not about feeling emotional or sad for somebody, it's understanding their point of view. So it's not about what I want to say to you.
Speaker 3:No-transcript, and that can. That can translate into very, very kind of simple, understandable things like professional associations, right. So if you have somebody's professional contact information and you're contacting them on the weekend. They may not be paying attention. It's their job, they're tuned out. So it's just really taking those nuggets at a very, very human level and thinking about how it will be received. Like, think about your own group of friends, like you know who to not contact first thing in the morning because you will not get a response.
Speaker 2:Right, absolutely Right, or if you're planning, I know who I can guarantee who I will likely wake up to a text from, because they're up way later than I was. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's, that's exactly. It's a very human response. Or if you're planning, you're making plans with somebody, you know that you know one of your friends. If you don't give them details and you don't spell it all out, they will not show up, yep. So it's just really kind of trying friends, if you don't give them details and you don't spell it all out, they will not show up. So it's just really kind of trying to to look at it through their lens and not just what we want to say, but how they will receive it.
Speaker 2:I. That's such a good reminder. I think too often we tend to just all we see is that they're a donor to our organization, right, but we we fail to even consider that they might also be a donor to seven other organizations. We don't know, right, but we fail to even consider that they might also be a donor to seven other organizations, we don't know right. We don't monopolize their kindness and charitable giving, but they do have so many other pieces to their personality. It's so often, I find, that we forget that donors are human. So this is a really good call to go back to that truth. Like no, we have to treat them the way that we would want to be treated, because they're human and and that's how communication happens.
Speaker 3:Exactly, exactly, I mean, I think, about world events, right. So you know, especially for organizations that are not you're sort of more attuned to local happenings in your own community, but for organizations that are nationwide like if you're contacting somebody in Southern California right now about something really, really urgent, it can kind of not be a priority at the moment, right? So it's just having that awareness and pausing and thinking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great. Okay, this has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you so much. If somebody wanted to you know, connect with you or learn more about the work that you do, what's the best way to find you and connect?
Speaker 3:LinkedIn is always a good place, olga Woltman, on LinkedIn. You can also email me, owoltman, at lemon-skiescom. I'm much better on LinkedIn than I am on email, admittedly, but I will absolutely respond.
Speaker 2:Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for joining us. This has been a great conversation. I do highly recommend that you go follow Olga because she's always putting out some really interesting posts, really well thought out pieces from her for anyone who is a nonprofit leader, so highly recommend going to connect with her there. But thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate that. This has been another episode of the Nonprofit Hub Podcast. I'm your host, megan Spear, and we'll see you next time.