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Nonprofit Hub Radio
Whether starting a nonprofit or taking an existing cause to the next level, The Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast is about breaking down how nonprofits can grow. Each episode features an interview with a sector star with insight, stories, or ideas that can take your nonprofit from good to excellence. Join host Meghan Speer every week to make your good go further!
Nonprofit Hub Radio
The Invisible Engine: Why Operations Matter for Nonprofits
When nonprofit leaders hear "operations," many immediately think of bureaucratic processes that pull them away from their mission work. But what if strong operational foundations are actually the key to multiplying your impact? Joshua Monge, fractional COO and founder of Think, Adapt, Build, makes a compelling case that treating your nonprofit like a business – with clear processes, defined roles, and contingency plans – creates the infrastructure needed for sustainable mission fulfillment. For startup nonprofits, Joshua offers three essential pieces of guidance. First, understand and clearly articulate why your organization specifically should be addressing your chosen issue when others may already be working in the space. Second, focus on measuring outcomes rather than just activities – not just what you're doing but what difference it's making. Third, remain flexible about potential solutions while staying focused on your core mission outcomes. Established nonprofits facing leadership transitions or growth challenges need different operational approaches. Joshua recommends a three-to-five-year window to document core processes, clarify financial systems, and create clear role definitions before significant leadership changes occur. This preparation prevents the all-too-common scenario where critical operational knowledge walks out the door with departing founders or executives. Connect with Joshua at thinkadaptbuild.com for operational resources designed specifically for nonprofits, or find him on LinkedIn where he regularly shares articles and practical wisdom for mission-driven organizations.
Get free nonprofit professional development resources, connections to cause work peers, and more at https://nonprofithub.org
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Speaker 2:Welcome back to the Nonprofit Hub podcast. I'm your host, Megan Spear, joined today by Joshua Monhaix, who's a fractional COO. We've spent a lot of time on the podcast so far this year talking about fundraising and marketing and storytelling and all of the things. But we're going to take a step back to the operational side today, so very excited to have Joshua joining me to dig into maybe some of that more operational leadership side for process, for making sure that the organization is actually going to move forward. Really excited to dig into this today. Joshua, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3:Oh, thank you so much. Those other topics, by the way, are way more appealing and fun and exciting, so I hope we can make operations, I know.
Speaker 2:And I think that's to your. That's exactly the point, right Is that operations is maybe not like the sexiest side of nonprofit work. Nobody really wants to sit down and talk about that. So I'm excited to hear from you today, because I do think we have a bunch of leaders listening to the podcast who need that kind of support, right. They need some structure and some help along that way. So I think this is going to be great along that way. So I think this is going to be great.
Speaker 3:That's awesome. I mean, I'm sure there's somebody that's listening right now, that's you know. Oh my gosh, I have all this stuff on my plate. I have all of these priorities. How do I get this sorted or build this whole program in a way that it's not them having to do everything and all that pressure? Yeah, this will be fun. I would love to kind of talk about operations and how to break some of that up for them.
Speaker 2:Awesome. So, by way of introduction, give us a little bit about your background and what led you into having such expertise in operations?
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, okay. So currently right now I work as a fractional COO. I have my own practice. It's called Think, adapt, build. I started that in 2021. I did that after my last quote real job. I was the director of economic development for a chamber up in Oregon. I was in the executive leadership, so I got to learn all the bells and whistles of running a nonprofit. And when I left the chamber it was during COVID and not a great time for a career transition. So I found myself having to figure out how to, you know, bring in money for food, because my family liked to eat and they like to have a place to roof over their heads.
Speaker 2:So no, high maintenance.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know Seriously. So I saw everybody going online and I used to run a digital marketing agency and so I did. I offered SEO audits and I knew exactly what my target audience was. I got that to six figures in 18 months. And then a friend of mine caught up who was a fractional CFO was like, hey, listen, the work that you did at the chamber, plus what you did with your own business, you should help people being a fractional COO. And so that's the reason why I started this. Even in my, when I had business before, I was very involved with the chamber and the nonprofit community, actually did some consulting for a few churches, and then, when I was at the chamber, I actually oversaw three volunteer boards that were like subset groups of the chamber and what they were doing. And yeah, so I've watched how, when there's a lack of operations, how that impacts the organization, how it flows.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then I've seen radical change. When you just get things organized, put things all in one place and just operational, foundational basics, and so when you put those components in place and treat the nonprofit like a business and put it to business metrics and build those business components, then the nonprofit seems to run a lot smoother and a lot better, even though you're reinvesting the profits back into the business. Great, you're running a profitable business that then you're just reinvesting those profits right, as opposed to oh, it's okay, we don't need all that stuff because we're all here for mission and vision. We don't need to execute it like a business. No, no, no, because we're all here for mission and vision.
Speaker 2:We don't need to execute it like a business no, no, no you are yes. So I say this all the time and I will. It's, at this point, like going to be put on my tombstone, but nonprofit is just a tax status, right.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:It does not impact how we run our organizations.
Speaker 3:I mean operationally it should not.
Speaker 2:Yes, it should not impact how we run our organizations.
Speaker 3:I mean operationally. Yes, it should not impact how we run our organizations Operationally. It should be exactly the same. I mean, I know there's a big qualifier there, but it still should be running as a strong business.
Speaker 2:So I want to have this conversation kind of two ways, then. Okay, one is and I'm going to start with maybe, the startup folks, because I know we have them in our audience, the folks who either are just starting their nonprofit, about to be launching their nonprofit. To me that's kind of the blank canvas right, like we could get it right from the jump. And so if you had your way in the conversation and we're talking to those folks, what are the top three things that you would say? These are the things that you have to get right, like if you're making a process, if you had a blank slate to start an organization fresh, where do you start to make sure that that organization moves forward efficiently and operationally well, from the jump.
Speaker 3:So I think I'm going to borrow from kind of my playbook of my recommendation for entrepreneurs in general and when they are thinking about getting started, and so my first piece of advice is don't do it.
Speaker 3:Sorry, that is not what I was expecting you to say say, okay, entrepreneurship is hard, it is difficult, and if you listen to that first piece of advice that I gave you, then, great, you shouldn't follow entrepreneurship. It's hard. You're going to get people telling you no, they're going to tell you a thousand reasons why you can't do it. You're going to have all these challenges and so if you're not prepared to fight for what you want and you're not prepared to really step up, don't do it. So there's my. I say it tongue in cheek, because 99% of people are like, oh, dude, you know, you know what you're talking about. I'm like, hey, great, now let's have a real conversation about what this looks like. Yeah, so then the second one is and I know this sounds very hokey and I feel kind of cheesy for saying it, but you know, when you talk about what your why is and what you exist, I think for nonprofits, you start out of the gate right away with the burden of competition. Why is it that somebody should care about what you care about and why should they contribute to it and support you to be the one to execute that version of that vision? Right, and I? I apologize if I come off a little too harsh, but I've met a lot of great nonprofits with a lot of great ideas, but I just I go, what about the guys across the street that are doing it? Like, why don't you partner with them, you know? Or like, why are you the one and not everybody else? So my first piece of advice on that point is understand your why and then how you're going to communicate that you're the one that needs to do this, your organization is the one that's going to work on this problem, and that you have a better chance of success or a better chance of solving it or creating more solutions than problems. If you can really get that solidified and really solid, I think you're going to be, in a way, better footing than like, oh you know, well, we just kind of got together and we kind of had this vision and nobody else was doing it in the market, I think and so we kind of threw this nonprofit together and now we're finding out, oh no, we're coming up against some really strong headwinds. You know you don't want to spend all that money, time and energy for this not bad idea to find out that it's not tested and you're not prepared for that. So that would be one.
Speaker 3:The second thing is, I think, having that clear vision and everything else, understand what success looks like with outcomes, not just with activities. So if your solution is like, hey, I know there's a lot of kids that hang out on the streets after school or they're not doing anything, and so we're going to create a place for them to to read, okay, but then what's the what's behind that, like you know? And so then if it's like, oh well, we want them to improve literacy rates, or we want them to be in a safe place, or we're going to provide them snacks or meals, or, and we're going to mentor them and we're going to foster a relationship, you know, of what community responsibility could look like. Whatever that is, make sure that you're always getting to those outcomes of that impact that you're making, and not just the activities.
Speaker 2:Okay, does that work.
Speaker 3:I like it. Yeah, Okay, good.
Speaker 2:I think that's great, because I do think we get caught up in the, sometimes in the well, I want to solve this particular problem, but down the road, and especially right now, you know there's a lot of question around grant funding. There's a lot of unknowns in nonprofit funding in general. You have to be able to prove those outcomes.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:If we start from a place of this is the outcome I'm trying to achieve and work backwards, then we have the answers when those grant applications come in.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:How have you done this and what's your success rate, Instead of going oh yeah, these are our programs, let's see if maybe I can fudge some answers and finesse it enough to pass the grant.
Speaker 3:We need the funding. So then we're going to go ahead and like, stretch our mission just a little bit to kind of cover this. Yeah, that's, that's hard. I think you know with nonprofits, to your point of what you were saying about understanding the outcome that you're going for, you also have to realize too, there's alternative solutions to that right.
Speaker 3:So the kids that are out at night I'm just going to use that as an example for probably the rest of the show, but is that you know? Could they be in a math tutoring center? Yes. Could they be in a mentorship program where they're learning trades? Yes. Could they be in a sports program? Yes. So now you have three different, essentially, solutions to that same problem with the outcome is to get the kids off the street and focused on something you know building themselves, building their human capital or their skill set. You've got three different ways to do it. So if you're really outcome focused, then when it comes to those solutions, maybe that's where you can pivot without having to set up a whole new system. You're also not locked into like, oh, this is the only way that we can get this done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I like that a lot. Let's presume, then, that we're going to shift the audience of this and ask a very similar question, because I know that there are folks out there who have been around a while. They've been trying to do the do the things. Maybe they have the outcomes that they've proven.
Speaker 3:They've done a really good job and they're like dying from success. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Either they're dying from success yeah, katie Grant their own organizations, right, and now those CEO founders are stepping out. And we got organizations all over the country who are kind of in scramble mode trying to figure out now that person has retired or stepped out or has passed away, whatever the case may be. They're trying to figure out what phase two looks like. How do we move an organization forward? How do we regroup To borrow your phrase from earlier when the wheels are falling off organization forward? How do we regroup To borrow your phrase from earlier when the wheels are falling off the bus? How do we regroup? So if somebody finds themselves in that kind of scenario where maybe we're established we've been doing the right things, but either we grew too quickly or there's been some sort of massive shift in leadership or something on that front, how do we regroup and put the wheels back on while we still keep going?
Speaker 3:Oh, that's great. Oh, I love that question. Yeah, I think you know for nonprofits that are looking to make that transition. If you have a CEO, if you have a nonprofit, that is like personality centric, so if the CEO is the organization, that's a hard one to break away from. I think in Traditional business sense, when a business owner is looking to leave, we tell them okay, the day you decide to leave should be the day that you start your business, so you build your business in a way that you can always leave. It Doesn't happen, it's a rare thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So I think, even in nonprofits maybe they start with the idea of, hey, we're hungry for this mission, I'm the one to execute, I've got a good team, I'm pulling people together, but they don't think what's going to happen to the organization when they get to a place where they need to exit. So I think exit planning kind of at some point, I work it in as soon as you can. The second part, though, is when you actually are in a place OK, I'm going to be exiting, I need to leave the organization. Then, basically, you have a three to five year window where you need to get things really structured and organized in a place to transition to the next person. Get things really structured and organized in a place to transition to that next person, and the best way to do that is to set it up where you know the ED or president or CEO I don't know whatever the head person is that's responsible for everything, that they're in a position that they can actually step out, that everything isn't solely reliant and dependent on them. In traditional business sense, there's what they call the absentee owner, where the owner owns the business, there's an operator running it, the owner's there for vision, for big vision those components, but the actual operations gets handled by an operator. I think if you can get your nonprofit to where you've got a good, solid team that can run the mission without you and that you're there for vision, supporting the board, help fundraising those components, then when it comes time to pass the leadership over, you actually have a business that you can pass on, because it's not built just around that one person. So I would get that done. And to do that you need to make sure financials are very clean, in order and very organized.
Speaker 3:I think nonprofits. I think one of the clear advantages they have is because they have so much accountability usually the financials are usually probably better out the gate. They're less commingling and less weird stuff like that. But then the second part is making sure you document your core processes, make sure your core system's documented and that the team understands where that is and how to utilize that. And I think most nonprofits I don't know that it follows the same growth trajectory as like for-profit businesses, in the sense that do you have like a one-year drop-off, three-year drop-off, five-year drop-off? I think once you get to like three to five years, you've got something that people are buying into and that they're supporting it and you're doing good. So I think just documenting the good stuff and getting that stuff structured and organized really well, I think would be very helpful.
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Speaker 2:Nonprofit folks are doing such good work, right, they're in it to make a difference. They're impacting their town, their city, their world, some sort of community, in major ways. And so how do we embrace this idea that operations is not the thing that we put up with? That detracts from that, because I could see where somebody if somebody is, you know, to use your example of somebody who's let's go stick that organization that is wanting to get kids into a safe place after school. Right, they are worried about focusing on building relationships with those students, connecting them to resources, helping them with homework. They're doing all of these things. I could see where, just as a devil's advocate here, right, having to sit down and document out how we do that and how we run this program and what that looks like, feels like it's taking away critical time from the doing.
Speaker 1:Oh, right yeah.
Speaker 2:So how do we, how do we flip that? How do we embrace the idea that like operations is not a thing that takes away from the mission, it's the thing that helps the mission happen?
Speaker 3:Yes, okay, so one. We have to first admit there is a trade-off, right. So yes, you could spend another. So let's say you had five hours of time. You have five hours servicing or helping, right, or having conversation and building that relationship yes, or you can spend a couple hours doing operational stuff, which is not doing that, which is one not as fun generally right and especially so much fun.
Speaker 2:What are you talking? Operational stuff which is not doing that, which is one not as fun? Generally Right.
Speaker 3:And especially so much fun. What are you talking about? No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2:I am one who would like I would love to be on the front lines doing it. And now you're going to tell me I got to sit behind a computer and do these parts. That feels not as rewarding.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I so I have. I have a little bit of a hack for people that are, because most of the people we're probably talking to now are visionaries, like the big picture people, and so they're like don't give me the details, let me just meet, greet and let's just Right, I don't want to do the doing.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, okay, totally, totally fair. But think of it this way If you were a baker, right, and you had to get bread to all these different locations and you were the head, but yet you really got it baked it, you're the one that drove it, you're the one that delivers it right. There's components of your business that have to be solidified, like it just needs to be done, and you need a repeatable process. You need to be able to replicate it, because then what you can do then is those components even in my analogy they gave you find somebody else to do the deliveries right, or find somebody else to bake the bread, or find somebody else to receive the deliveries. Like you can find components of the job that you're doing that other people can do, and so then you can hire them to do that.
Speaker 3:So if you don't like documenting processes which I totally get it the first hire that I would recommend for any executive that's starting a new business venture or has a seasoned business venture but can't get time for themselves is to hire an executive assistant or a VA. Hire someone to take all the small things off your plate, all the little you know, like booking your calendar appointments. You know automate booking your calendar appointments, you know automated. Or hire somebody, and you know I know people will read about overhead and how much money is being spent for operational costs. That's fine, but think of it this way too You're also giving somebody an opportunity to work and to contribute to their mission in a way that is maybe financially not the same way and time wise is not the same same way, but they're going to help make the little engine that's going to keep you producing really good work and you're going to create this process that's repeatable.
Speaker 3:So hire a va, get them to document and then have them document their job.
Speaker 3:So when you talk to them, say like, hey, I just had a, you know I have to do the board meeting and I have to get the minutes together, and if you show them how to do, they can pull all of that together for you. So then when you show up, you only have to do the final touches on it. Right, they can go, pull the data and report, so they can ask people questions, all of those kinds of components that you think are boring, that you don't want to do. If you get somebody else to do it, they can document it for you and then you have a repeatable process. And then, when you decide to grow and you add members to your team, now you have documentation to say by the way, this is how we do these components. If you don't create a repeatable process, then you're going to be stuck at some point where you've got one person trying to cook 20 meals all at the same, 20 different meals all at the same time, in a kitchen that can only do five. Yeah, so Interesting.
Speaker 2:Okay, so obviously the documentation piece is important. Yes, Right, Because realistically turnover can be pretty high in a lot of nonprofits. So we want to make sure that the processes don't get dropped or that we don't skip steps, especially if you're someone who's in one that has a lot of compliance or you know documentation that is required. Are there other pieces of operational leadership that we tend to maybe ignore? Are there other pieces that kind of fall through the cracks that we should start paying attention to?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think clear role definition I think is extremely helpful Because, like you you said, when you have churn, you know people are walking out the door so it's like, okay, bob was handling the compliance piece, now he's not here, so now we've got mary doing it, but mary's in charge of payroll, so then she's splitting her time and then she's like what are my priorities? And then somebody else is taking over part of the job and you get these kind of like amalgamation, kind of frankenstein job roles. I think taking a step back and saying, okay, clearly, what are the job functions that we need, what are those accountabilities and responsibilities, and then creating an org chart of like who very clearly is doing those things, and then in those job descriptions clearly articulating like what the priorities are I think are super important. Uh, I mean, if we could take like non-profit ideology and put it in a for-profit business, we'd have like superstars doing 20 million things and like we could do some really cool stuff.
Speaker 3:But it's also creates high level burnout and frustration and I just I think you can clarify a lot of that just by having a clear job description, clear accountabilities and a clear org chart. Then everybody knows exactly what they're doing, they know who they report to, they understand what their job capacity is and then when you have to replace a person, ideally you're going to replace that role. You're not going to replace the person, because that person is going to have their own unique sets of skills and abilities and everything else is going to have their own unique sets of skills and abilities and everything else. But you can then hire for the job, for the functions that you know you need, because you have processes that require certain things to get done. So you're going to hire a person to take care of that process. I don't know. I've seen a lot of nonprofits that when their talented person walks out the door, there goes like 20 different jobs that just got done by them.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And people only knew about five of them, and so documenting that, I think, is helpful.
Speaker 2:So we're going to ask the question. It's a similar line, but there's one more group I want to speak to, right Sure, and that would be so if you were to sit down with, let's say, the CEO of a nonprofit right now. What is the one piece of advice that you would give them in terms of like, when you think about operations, when we think about making sure that your organization is operationally healthy?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What's one piece of advice that you would give to them to say, like this is the one thing that you want to make sure stays in check. Or, if you see this, it's a red flag and it's time to regroup. What's the one thing that they should be looking out for? Or the piece of wisdom that you would give them around that?
Speaker 3:Well, that is a really good question, cause I would like to you know operations. Sometimes we like to think that you know it's, it's all about the processes, but I mean, the financial responsibilities are obviously there. So you know, if the business runs out of money, that's, that's the gas that keeps the keeps the whole thing going. So I think you know understanding it's the shock to the system. So I'll, because we've actually had a conversation One of my clients they provide SaaS software in the apprenticeship space and a lot of their clients, not a lot. What was the percentage? I think like 25%. It just feels like a lot. It's a significant amount of money, but by about 25% of the clients they run off grants and so, with the current administration and the challenges that are happening right now with funding, they were like, hey, listen, our business might actually be. You know, because we look two steps down the road. We see how the money comes in. We know that this is a problem, and so we had to have a conversation. See how the money comes in, we know that this is a problem, and so we had to have a conversation like are we going to have to pause some of the services that we're doing, or you know, what does this relationship look like now in these uncertain times? And I think, for non-profits, planning ahead and that resiliency of like, okay, there's going to be a potential shock or something coming up, I think this is where strong operations will help you prepare for that.
Speaker 3:Because if you, if you have systems in place where you know, let's say, like a winter storm, right, winter storm shuts down All of a sudden people can't get to work, people can't. You know, people still need services, but you're not providing them because, and resources are all over the place and deliveries are coming you know what I'm saying. Like, if you have, operationally, if you knew we're like, okay, this is how the system runs, these are the inputs, outputs and we have this measured. Now, what happens when we have a failure, system failure, okay, well, we know who to call, because all of your documentation is one place, or this process broke, okay, why did it break? It breaks because this, uh, let's say, we're using public transit or we're using the local school. They're renting out school buses for you to help get those kids off the ferry. Can we call a private bus company to go pick those kids up? And then, operationally, that's how that functions.
Speaker 3:So, if you have solid operations, I think it can prepare you for those shocks that are going to happen. And my recommendation would be do your contingency planning that tests some of those scenarios or come up with, like you know, like little, like war room shortages, with your, with your board or with your leadership team to say, hey, if we experienced these different kinds of system shocks, like what are we going to do to prep for that? That's going to test your operational system. Oh, my gosh, yeah, I like this, this is fun. This, this, this is what I would recommend.
Speaker 2:That's great, I love it. But you're right, I think, because especially in the executive director seat, you're tending to focus real big picture. We're focused on development and fundraising. We're maybe the vision caster and not necessarily the nitty gritty. That's a really good, actionable step that a leader could take. And I really where? Maybe the vision caster and not necessarily the nitty gritty.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's a really good actionable step that a leader could take, and I really so. Yeah, I really appreciate that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, cause then it just embraces their vision, right? So like exactly yeah, oh, that's great, oh, awesome.
Speaker 2:Thanks for teasing that out.
Speaker 3:Thank you, that was fun.
Speaker 2:Joshua. Yeah, that was fun, joshua. This has been a really good conversation and I think it's going to be super helpful for those who sit in that executive director role, but also for the operations folks, maybe to help explain their world even a little bit better to other folks. So I think the awareness that you are bringing to that side I think is super helpful.
Speaker 3:Oh good, yeah, yeah, for all of those operators in the nonprofit world. Thank you Seriously. You guys are the backbone for a lot of the operations and and you keep the lights on and the day to day going.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that's great.
Speaker 3:They're great.
Speaker 2:If somebody wanted to connect with you to learn more, maybe about some of the process documentation, or wanting to learn more about the services that you offer. How do we find you?
Speaker 3:So you can find me online two ways. One head to my website, thinkadaptbuildcom. For people that listen to the podcast, I have a special link, so I'll send that to you. Maybe we can put it in the show notes. I have a little guide for you for operational basics that you should have. I usually do a 30 minute session, but I'll do an hour session if you want. I'll talk about anything, no obligation. I just want to help put Goodwill out there. The second way to find me is on LinkedIn. I post articles and I share resources quite a bit, so you know, if you need something or if you have a question like, even shoot that to me and I'll answer it or help out.
Speaker 2:Fantastic. That's awesome, Joshua. Thank you so much. I really enjoyed this conversation. I think it's going to be really helpful to a lot of folks in our audience.
Speaker 3:Awesome. Thanks, Megan, for the opportunity. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, again, my guest has been Joshua Monehay, who is the fractional COO helping organizations get their operations in order. So thank you, joshua, for being here. This has been another episode of the Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast. I'm your host, megan Spear, and we'll see you next time.