Nonprofit Hub Radio
Whether starting a nonprofit or taking an existing cause to the next level, The Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast is about breaking down how nonprofits can grow. Each episode features an interview with a sector star with insight, stories, or ideas that can take your nonprofit from good to excellence. Join host Meghan Speer every week to make your good go further!
Nonprofit Hub Radio
Unlocking Leadership: The Power of Mentorship
In this inspiring episode, Ken Miller shares his journey from foster care to becoming a lifelong mentor to over 50 men. With heartfelt candor, he unpacks the key differences between mentoring, coaching, and workplace sponsorship—emphasizing that true mentorship is always free, relational, and focused on the whole person. Ken’s approach begins with a powerful question: “What is your dream?” and aims to help others rediscover the ability to dream. He also discusses the unique challenges faced by women and people of color in finding mentors and how his organization, Men of Color in Development, addresses this need. Whether you're seeking a mentor, becoming one, or building a culture of support, this episode offers practical insight for every stage of your nonprofit journey.
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Drowning in spreadsheets and manual processes. Bonterra Apricot is the smarter, faster way for nonprofits to manage programs, track outcomes and actually show your impact. Find out how at BonterraTechcom slash Nonprofit Hub. Welcome back to the Nonprofit Hub podcast. I'm your host, megan Spear, and joining me today is Ken Miller, who is an author, speaker, mentor, business owner and, from what I understand, all around nice guy. Real excited to have Ken on the show. Today we're going to be digging into a topic that I don't think we've talked about yet, at least this season on the podcast around mentorship and coaching and sponsorship and what it really means to empower nonprofit leaders. So I'm really excited to dig into this, ken. Welcome in, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Thank you, megan, it's my pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. So tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey that led us here today, your background with nonprofit folks and your overall experience before we dig in here.
Speaker 2:Sure, I think it's somewhat good to give a little background because it explains my why and why I give back so much to the philanthropic community, because that's what I really do. So, real quick, in 1962, I was born. My mother was a teenage runaway, my dad was unfortunately a drug dealer and a pimp, wow and I was in it for adoption at birth. So I did six years in foster homes. I was adopted when I was age six and I moved from New York to Anchorage, alaska. So a lot of people know me in the field Ken from Alaska. Oh, did you talk to Ken from Alaska? But anyway, I grew up in Alaska. I was what they call precocious. I was a national merit scholar in high school, accepted to Harvard, I went to Dartmouth College, got my degree from Dartmouth College, graduated with a degree in fraternity with a minor in drinking, and it did not do me well as soon as I got out.
Speaker 1:I know a couple of people. Yeah, I was the first. Yeah, I've met a couple of those guys.
Speaker 2:I got out and went into the corporate world and corporate sales, did that for two or three years, but unfortunately I had a substance misuse problem predominantly cocaine and alcohol and so I ended up within a year of being homeless on the streets, and I was a remain homeless for about 20 years and in and out of jails, institutions and three prison terms, did many years behind bars and then finally, in 2007, I was released. I had no skills, had no skills, and I was fortunate enough to get a position as a development director with a soup kitchen. I knew that world, but I would have been at this point. I'd been cleaning soap for about four or five years and I took to it like duck to water, fell in love with the community, and so that's how I entered the field of philanthropy, but really into the field of fundraising.
Speaker 1:That's so interesting. I'm sure we could do a whole extra episode just on that experience and that background. But I'm going to venture a guess, and I know one of the things that you're passionate about is that mentorship and that coaching, and I'm going to assume there had to be some people along the way that helped you significantly in that way, in that process, to get to where you are. Is that where your passion came from, or is it because nobody helped you and you want to give somebody else a better experience came from?
Speaker 2:Or is it because nobody helped you and you want to give somebody else a better experience? When I first got out of college, there were a couple of gentlemen who did mentor me Okay, and this was 1985. I'm 21, 22 years old because I didn't have a strong father figure and I was also looking for a black gentleman older that could show me the ropes, sure. So I did do that for a couple of years, but then again, with the relapse, I ended up on the streets and, yeah, I probably have some mentors on the streets, but I'm not going to count them.
Speaker 2:So I get out and in 2010, I was awarded an award from NAACP Anchorage chapter, and when I went to make my speech which I did not know I was going to make a speech I go up there and I said you saw these young men and women that walked across the stage. My charge to you, mr and Mrs Black bourgeoisie from Anchorage, alaska, is to reach down to these young men and women and mentor them, support them on their journey. My word is my bond and I'm going to do that. So I got off the stage, I went to the last gentleman that I saw receive an award and I've been mentoring ever since 2010. Wow, I've probably mentored about 40 or 50 young men, men of all persuasions, but predominantly black men.
Speaker 1:I love the impact, because the ripple effect of that, then, is so powerful to think about.
Speaker 2:Yes, and in fact the name of my organization or group. They call it a group and this was always for free. It's called the Pass it On group of mentoring, and so I have right now we have four generations of Black men mentoring Black men. That's a very specific field and I also mentor individuals from other backgrounds and I do a lot of mentoring in the fundraising world itself and those gentlemen now are all over the country. Originally it was just Anchorage. Those gentlemen now are all over the country.
Speaker 1:Originally it was just Anchorage, but now they're all over the country. So as we sit here recording, we're coming to the season where a lot of folks are just graduating from college. They may be starting those first jobs. We see a lot of I know we see a lot of nonprofit folks that enter the field over the summer coming into maybe those first roles. Lot of nonprofit folks that enter the field over the summer coming into maybe those first roles. If you were speaking to those individuals, those new grads, those brand new green in the field- what would you encourage them to do or what process could they?
Speaker 2:follow to go find a mentor, Because I'll give you an example For me it was always like I loved the idea, but the idea of going and asking somebody who's that much further ahead in their career felt really intimidating, and so I feel like I let myself miss out on a lot of opportunities because I didn new to the fundraising fields and you're not understanding what it means to make the ask. Yeah, you ask fundraisers, whether it's major gift work, whether it's annual campaign, whether it's planned giving. You're making the ask and the ask is very simple a question desiring a response, and the only responses that you will get are yes, no and not now. Those are the three responses that we get. So what we do is we identify and I'm pretty big on this is try to identify someone that you respect their walk and you respect what they've accomplished.
Speaker 2:And then what I recommend and I teach this in one of my classes, because a lot of times I'll just call up and say can I take you out for a cup of coffee? I'd like to pick your brain, and what I mean is I'd like to ask you some questions, and for most people they're so comfortable with that because it's not hubris so much in that somebody sees I have value, in something that I may share with them and that the conversation goes well. Very simply, would you mind mentoring me? Are you open to mentoring me? I am hungry to learn and I'm hungry to have someone. Let me know, maybe, what some of the obstacles or areas of challenge that are within our field, as in any field.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great point. So let's talk about, then, what mentoring is and what it isn't. Give me your perspective on there. What should the mentoring relationship look like, what is the goal of it, and then how do we make sure that that becomes like a solid foundation from the start?
Speaker 2:So the first thing you have to look at is antithesis or look at opposites. First of all, mentoring is not coaching. That's number one A lot of people misunderstand. Coaching is a paid engagement. When you get coached, it's a paid engagement between the coach and the coachee. Mentoring is an engagement and or relationship between the mentor and the mentee. Mentoring you listen. In coaching, you ask a lot of questions of the coach. It's seeking answers. But mentoring is much more where the mentee is doing most of the listening and the mentor is doing most of the talking. That's a very common point. Mentoring is always free, always. Coaching usually has a fee-based system to it and we talk about a third one, which we'll talk about a little bit later, which is workplace sponsorship, which is the third component. So we have the mentoring and different people mentor different ways, but there is best practices. Believe me on that.
Speaker 2:I've been teaching this for 15 years. I've been mentoring. At one point I had 29 men all over the country that I mentored for free, but now I'm down to 10 because I had to cut it back. It was just taking too much of my time. Coaching is almost always time-delimited in that there is a time frame six months, three months, one year, whatever it may be whereas mentoring is open-ended Good mentoring is open-ended. There's no time frame. I've been that same gentleman in 2010 that I met Xavier Mason is his name. I still mentor him. Still, every quarter we meet. Fifteen years we've been eating Okay.
Speaker 2:So let me just say this is one of the most important things that I say. When I sit down with an individual gentleman, I only mentor men. I always will say this first thing my goal, and my only goal, is to engender dreams. What is your dream? And then I shut up and I listen for the dream, because I want to know what your aspiration is. I want to know your goal, but it's more. It's the dream, and I'm going to do everything within my power and my resources to assist you in obtaining this dream.
Speaker 2:I have sat down with grown men who have cried because their dream came true. It took four years, it took six years, but, as a man, to have a dream that you didn't even know could happen could come to fruition, to sit down with a man and say what is your dream, a man, and say what is your dream and have them struggle with identifying because that dream has been taken away from them, by their peers, by their parents, by their schoolmates, by their teachers. No, you can't dream that You're just X, y, z. And then I say no, I give you permission to dream. I say that it was like words. I give you permission to dream. Take your time and let me know what is your dream. It doesn't mean we can't change it in time. And then there are specific tactics that I have where I can assist you with to help engender that dream.
Speaker 1:That's so good. I really like the distinction, though, because I think you're right, mentoring and coaching have tended to become synonymous when they're not, but the idea of and maybe it's where it makes me not want to consider mentorship, because I've put them into the same boat and I think I'm realizing as part of this conversation I'm sure other people are too that there really is that distinction that we have to keep in mind.
Speaker 1:So I really, yeah, I really appreciate that call out. You mentioned another one, though, and I'd love for you to define a little bit of what that looks like, and that is the idea of workplace sponsorship. So what's that third piece of the triangle there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, a lot of people don't know that one, or understand it or have experience or don't know they have experienced it. So workplace sponsorship is usually an individual in the C-suite or in upper management identifies individuals within the organization that they're going to quote, unquote sponsor. So they're going to provide opportunities, whether you know it or not, so that you can grow, because I see value in you, I see potential in you. Good workplace sponsorship is about the individual that you see this potential in that you want to enhance. So I'm going to send you to conferences, I'm going to get you on this team, I'm going to let you volunteer for this event that you'll get exposed to other individuals, whatever it may be, but it's workplace sponsorship and good management and leadership promotes this. Who do you see? Who do you see at this level? We're at this level that we should invest resources and time and money in.
Speaker 2:The US military has done this for years because they understand the power of colonels and we call flag officers a flag rank, whatever it may be, identifying lieutenants, identifying captains, that we can send them to different schools because what we play for is so important. But we still do this in the corporate. I didn't even know I was being workplace sponsored. I haven't done workplace sponsorship because I have the resources, capabilities and also I can make the decision to do this for you. All you know is you got sent to a free conference. No, I paid for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I've done that for people within my. I used to be an executive director, so I've done that for individuals within my. I used to be an executive director, so I've done that for individuals within my organizations, and then I do I'm an interim executive director probably never do it again. It's so much work. You know there's a fill in. You know I'm like a substitute teacher or a nonprofit a million dollar, nonprofit, two million, so, but anyway, that's workplace sponsorship. So how do you find a workplace sponsor? First of all, again, they're identifying you, but you got to get around them.
Speaker 2:One of the best ways to find a workplace sponsor is to volunteer to do things within the organization volunteer to be on this committee, volunteer to be on this team, volunteer to be on this team, volunteer to help out at this event. How can I get in front of those individuals that make the decision that see that I'm hungry, see that I'm curious and see that I want to grow within? And then the other one is go to your team lead or your supervisors or those in management and say I want to grow. This was my dream that in two to three years I'll be the chief development officer, I'll be a development director, I'll be a major gift officer or I'll have a team in the annual campaigns of data management, whatever it may be. But I'm curious and I'm hungry and I just want to let you know that know that Ever feel like you're stuck managing programs in spreadsheets and scattered systems.
Speaker 1:Apricot by Bonterra is a smarter, faster way for nonprofits to track outcomes, simplify reporting and unlock more funding. With tools built for real nonprofit workflows and trusted by over 3,400 organizations, it helps your team grow your impact and better serve your community. You can meet us at Bonterratechcom slash nonprofit hub today. From your experience, I'm curious the thought process here If somebody is because I think we have both members in our audience right we have the executive directors and the leaders, the C-suite leaders, if you will and we have some folks who are just starting out. This is their first gig and they are young and hungry, ready to go. Generally find, if somebody is maybe the c-suite level, the leader are, is it best for them within their workplace to obviously do the sponsorship and then mentor someone outside of it, or can workplace sponsorship and mentorship go hand in hand?
Speaker 2:workplace sponsorship, if done, best practices. You don't know it? Okay, it's number one number one.
Speaker 1:Oh interesting, okay, yeah, yeah, now with.
Speaker 2:C3 knows. They're like how's Bob doing, how's Jane doing? You know, and you go around a lot of ones. You'll go around and say well, how are your, your individuals that you take an interest in on behalf of the company, how are they doing? Okay, that's number one. Number two is I am not.
Speaker 2:This is a tough one. I'm not a big fan of mentoring within the organization unless the organization is very big, because there's too many dynamics, whether it's like a direct report or even above a direct report, because if you go above the direct report, they're like you're going to my boss to be mentor, or he's mentoring or she's mentoring you. Yeah, what I say, is it possible? Stay within the field if you want. This is one thing that's also misunderstood about mentoring. Most of the time in mentoring, it's not about technical skills, it's about supporting you on the journey. I'll introduce you to people, I will maybe send you some information or help you identify which sessions to go to at ICON, afp, icon, sure. So I'm giving you information and then I'm also, but one of the big parts is supporting people emotionally. The biggest difficulty I've been teaching this webinar or workshop for 10 years plus the biggest difficulty I have found is individuals of color or women trying to find mentors.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Because most of the time, the individual that you're looking to that have reached this level or expertise or gravitas are men. I don't mentor women, period. I don't. I'm a married man. I just I've seen too much in my life. But it's hard for women. They want someone. And can I mentor with this guy? Or I'm Asian American and I'm looking for someone Asian American. So one of the things that, again, if you're looking to grow and it's not all technical look outside your field. You will go and you will meet people who are successful in other areas. What we're looking for is what are the principles of success? What are the principles of inter-organization dynamics, human dynamics, dynamics of working up, working down and working sideways within an organization, because I teach all that when I work with my guys. So those are the two main things I find white men mentor. White men, I mean, I feel most comfortable with, or the ones that are approaching them. Okay, yes, but they have a tendency to mentor or, even worse, workplace sponsor individuals. Oh yeah, he golfs too. He's 23. And I golf.
Speaker 1:He reminds me of myself when I was younger.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and you're hungry and plus, you might have kids and you're the head of the family. They may be old school in that area and so it makes it difficult sometimes for them to look outside. That was one of the key reasons I started Men of Color in Development is so that black men could see that there are black men in the fundraising field who have reached levels of prominence, success and or competency. So one of the things that I've spent a bit of time is identifying those gentlemen. And then I asked hey, would you mentor young black men in this field? Yeah, nine out of 10. Sure, who do you got? I'm not saying you need to do 29, but if you can do two or three it would be so great. And the young men when I say young, anything up to mid forties, they love it. They didn't think that they could find anybody in the field actually that would be able to support them.
Speaker 1:Well and it's interesting.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately, a podcast audience can't necessarily see your face, but the face that you made in response to somebody asking, let's say, somebody in their 50s, early 60s, would you consider mentoring down a level Even the face you made at pretending to be asked lit up your eyes in a really exciting way, and I think so often we don't realize the impact that we can have right, we're so in the trenches a lot of times that until somebody says, hey, I've got this guy, this girl, would you be interested in mentoring for somebody to see that value in you and say, would you be willing to come alongside this person?
Speaker 1:It makes us realize our own value in a way that I don't think we get to do regularly in our career, and so I think that's something that I would encourage a lot of folks about is you do have something to offer. Everybody has something to offer to the folks coming up behind them. I was struck by how excited your face got at the idea of being able to give back when you were just imitating somebody who was being asked that. It's cool to think about what that can do to somebody in their own career and make them really embrace the wisdom and the knowledge and the success that they have, when maybe they might not see that in themselves regularly.
Speaker 2:Let me give you another side of this. Many of the men that I've spoken to who are mentoring, it gives them life. Yeah, I would just like to sit down with someone who's hungry to be a great fundraiser, but, more importantly, I mentor the whole person. They're hungry to be a better father, they're hungry to be a better husband or partner, and when you see that light in their eyes, that remember. The one of the most important things I do as a mentor is I do this.
Speaker 2:I see you, I acknowledge you. I acknowledge you with your faults and, believe me, I dealt with some faults. I see you with your setbacks dealt with some faults. I see you with your setbacks, your stubbing of the toe. I see you in your pain right now. I acknowledge that. And there's something else I always do.
Speaker 2:These are my suggestions, because there's one of two things that's going to happen at every group Every time I meet. I meet for one hour with these gentlemen every three months, and the two things that are going to come out of that are, very simply, this I will give you a suggestion, a suggested path, and a lot of times we just need to hear that this is probably what I was thinking I need to do next anyway, but I just need that validation. And then the other one is I'm just going to listen, I'm just going to let you get this out. You have a safe, trusting place to get this out. And here I am an older black man that believes in you, because again, and I don't want to make this like a black thing, but in our community black men, we've had some difficulties being filed, sure, okay, and I'll just leave it at that. I mean, I was locked up with thousands. Okay, that we were not there, yeah, including me yeah, if somebody is.
Speaker 1:I want to speak specifically to those executive directors at the moment, because all of this sounds really great, but a lot of it has to come, especially on the workplace sponsorship idea. A lot of that has to come from the top. Culture is driven from the top. So if we're talking to the executive director specifically, what's the message to them? How do we inspire the rest of our C-suite to start thinking in that regard? How do we start to really ourselves be putting the framework on to understand? Where can I look at workplace sponsorship? Where can I really, how can I instill that in my team so that it becomes a culture where we're constantly empowering the folks coming up underneath?
Speaker 2:The first thing I would say is learn about workplace sponsorship. You can Google it. It's not original. With me, I can guarantee you that. So you learn about it and then be intentional to do it, because you have team leads. It depends on the size of your organization. I've been in an organization with four people, but I'm telling you, you have team leads, you have management, and the thing that I would say is I would like for each of y'all to read this about workplace sponsorship, and then I want you to identify one or two people that you think would be worthy or would be good for us to sponsor, and then it is your position or your charge to keep tabs on them, observe them, question them, because what we're going to do is we will allocate funding, I'll allocate time as you sitting down with that person, taking them to lunch, coffee, whatever it may be, to talk to them.
Speaker 2:How did the conference go? What did you learn at the conference? Oh, excellent. Wow, we have this new team we're putting together that. We're going to do X, y, z. Would you be interested?
Speaker 2:And if the person's hungry, they would. And then, if they're listening to this and you get offered a volunteer position or volunteer or offer to volunteer for something that again could be taking away capacity of time, potentially a little bit of money, but I doubt that. But time, do it? Show that you're hungry to grow, and I love the word grow. And the other thing is, I'm a big one on leadership, leading by example, and so, yes, you have team leads here, but you can sponsor them, yeah, especially if they don't know anything about it or even not do, because some people you learn that you're being sponsored. Some people will come up to you say I'm sponsoring you or I'm keeping an eye on you. Because in the end though I always say this when I talk to the individuals that have looking to be workplace sponsored I said you still gotta show results. You still have to show results. That's a little backroom.
Speaker 1:I love it. Ken. This has been so good. If somebody wanted to learn more or connect with you and find out more about some of this work or the coaching and consulting and mentoring that you do, how would they find you? What's the best way to connect?
Speaker 2:LinkedIn. Linkedin Miller 84. Or you can call me. I have one phone number. I'm not afraid I've had the same number for 15 years 907-250-8488. And I pick up my phone.
Speaker 1:I love it. So I have no problem. Oh, I love it. Excellent, as we wrap up. I've been asking everybody kind of the same question as we wrap up the season If you could give one piece of advice to a nonprofit leader, what?
Speaker 2:would that be in this moment To a nonprofit leader, not a new individual coming into the sector.
Speaker 2:Nonprofit leader. Seek outside counsel, Get a mentor Just because you're the CEO of XYZ. I own businesses. I own five businesses and I have mentors Alphonse Brown Jr and a guy named Jim Posey and Alphonse is pretty well known in the fundraising world, especially AFP, past chair of the AFP Global Board of Directors. So, anyway, that's what I say to do, Even though I mentor how many? I've been doing this for 15 years. I have book clubs, all that stuff. I still mentor Because there are times where this gets tough being a business owner or being even in the fundraising field and I can reach out to him and say, hey, this is my truth.