Nonprofit Hub Radio
Whether starting a nonprofit or taking an existing cause to the next level, The Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast is about breaking down how nonprofits can grow. Each episode features an interview with a sector star with insight, stories, or ideas that can take your nonprofit from good to excellence. Join host Meghan Speer every week to make your good go further!
Nonprofit Hub Radio
Being Human at Scale: The Key to Digital Fundraising Success
In this illuminating conversation with Courtney Krus and Greg Colunga, managing partners of Amplify Fundraising, we unpack how nonprofits can transform their digital strategy from a "bolt-on" tactic to a powerful, relationship-building channel that drives meaningful results.
These digital fundraising experts reveal what they call "The Pizza Hut Problem" - how traditional nonprofit communications often resemble impersonal, highly-stylized marketing emails that create distance rather than connection. "We have to be authentic and human," Courtney emphasizes, sharing practical ways to write conversational emails that feel like messages from a friend rather than a corporation.
You'll learn why personalization matters more than polish, how to leverage the donor data you already possess, and simple changes you can implement immediately to humanize your digital communications. Greg explains that digital shouldn't be viewed strictly as a revenue channel, but as "an additive piece of the recipe to everything that you're doing," supporting and enhancing your entire fundraising program.
With nonprofit retention rates dropping 12% in just four years, this conversation couldn't be more timely. Whether you're just starting with digital or looking to refresh your approach, you'll walk away with actionable strategies to build authentic connections that inspire generosity.
Get free nonprofit professional development resources, connections to cause work peers, and more at https://nonprofithub.org
Non-profits. Are you ready to spend less time on paperwork and more time making an impact? Save big on Adobe Acrobat Pro, the leading PDF and e-signature tool built for mission-driven work. Apply for your discount now at adobecom. Slash nonprofits, slash acrobat. Welcome back to the Nonprofit Hub podcast. I'm your host, megan Spear, with my dear friends Courtney and Greg. So we have Courtney Cruz and Greg Kalunga, who are the managing partners of Amplify Fundraising. Very excited to dig in to digital with them today because I feel like on the podcast so far this season we've talked a lot about fundraising in various elements more on, like the high level strategy, but not necessarily digging into channel by channel. So I'm really excited to get kind of a deep dive on digital today, and these are definitely the people to do it. So, courtney, greg, welcome in. Thank you so much. Great to be here.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Okay, so, courtney, introduce yourself. Sure, to start off, give us a little background about how we got to the conversation today here. What's your background in nonprofit?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, actually I was thinking about back on this just the other day because I always say I'm like I've been in fundraising for, you know, 10, 10, 15 years.
Speaker 3:But I actually remember in college volunteering at, like, social service agencies and doing a bunch of volunteer work and, of course, you know, projects in college. So I guess back in my college days I started but, career wise, in the last 10 to 15 years I've really been focused on fundraising for nonprofits, specifically in the digital space, and you know I've overseen client partnerships at agencies and now have kind of taken this leap with Greg to start our own agency called Amplify. So thrilled to be here and my heart honestly, is to help nonprofits. It's not just like to work with these you know the big nonprofits to continue to grow revenue for them. My heart is for and with nonprofits, because I actually worked at a nonprofit for almost six years as well. So I understand the pain, you know, and the resourcing and all of that and the challenges that you're up against, and so really that's our heart and desire. Why we started Amplify was to help more nonprofits, because we understand the pain that everyone experiences.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that's great, I love it. And Greg, what about you? What's your background in the nonprofit space?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well I've. I've spent about a half of my career in the for profit space, the other half working with nonprofits, but it's always been in a fundraising or marketing consultancy in marketing services type agency of sorts. And so, yeah, I started my career back in 2010 in fundraising focused on digital. My title was Internet Strategist.
Speaker 1:Ooh, internet Strategist yeah yes, wow.
Speaker 3:You heard it in here first. The World Wide Web, yes, yes and electronic email is what we did do.
Speaker 2:I think we used to also bang rocks together back then.
Speaker 2:So yeah, started, started working at an agency here in the dfw metroplex that was predominantly a direct mail shop and just kind of started bolting digital capabilities in because it was an emerging channel that a lot of the clients of that organization really wanted to focus on. That group was acquired by another group and so I stayed for about six years and then left to go back to the for-profit space for three for a publicly traded group and then was recruited to go focus to work at a digitally focused nonprofit for the last seven. That's where I met Courtney.
Speaker 3:And actually fun fact, greg and I did not like each other when we met each other and now we've found a business together. That's maybe for another day. Megan yeah, that that might need a whole different podcast.
Speaker 2:Is there like a B side?
Speaker 1:of the podcast. Right, can we do like outtakes and extras?
Speaker 3:things that you can learn about that no one really and maybe actually the the bigger hot take is it's not that we didn't like each other. I actually didn't like greg, so that's to be honest. But anyways, go ahead greg.
Speaker 1:But we've gotten over that, we've moved past it and now and now out of it, we have amplify. Yeah, right, what's?
Speaker 2:funny about that is I thought we were like best friends from the beginning, so it took me a little while to learn that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, here we are today that's a rough spot, okay, but we will definitely save that for the b-side because I think that would be an intriguing conversation of and what could we learn from how to get along with people that you didn't necessarily have a great first impression. They make great business partners eventually. Absolutely Life lessons. Okay, so we're digging in on digital, which, now that we don't call it internet specialists or wherever it is, I think we should bring it back.
Speaker 1:Maybe, so let's level set just from the gate. When we're talking about digital, I think that even that word by itself means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Right, it can encompass web and email and social and all digital ad the whole nine. There's so many things that fall under that umbrella. What do we want to start focusing on here today? Where do we want to start? Which of those topics would you like to start with?
Speaker 3:It goes back to Greg's point of like. I was at an agency that bolted on digital and I think that is exactly the area that we should focus on, because that's really happening at a lot of places still, and even nonprofits just like they don't know what to do, and direct mail is what we've always been told to do and start with, but direct mail is also very expensive and there hasn't been a lot of research or data even around like well, is digital a viable channel for a nonprofit? Because, you know, we hear that retention is poor, we hear that they don't upgrade as much.
Speaker 1:All of these maybe rumors or I guess, just maybe we just think that for whatever, reason and sure, well, all it takes is one person who had a bad experience with it, right, and they tell somebody. And it's a small community, so that word tends to travel pretty quickly.
Speaker 3:Well, and to like where people started with digital is like let's just do quote e-blast right, that was digital to them, and so the landscape of digital has radically changed, and the great thing about that is is that we have data now to actually support that. Digital is not just a bolt on channel, but it's a viable channel to like start with, and so that's what's really cool about that, and Greg can even share some of the data behind it. It's really fascinating of why digital is so valuable. Yeah.
Speaker 2:One thing that I would add there too is, I think, to your point, megan, asking like what is digital and how does it apply? I think there's, I would say. You know, in the last nearly decade of working with charitable nonprofits to stand up first time digital program, a lot of organizations think of it in terms of that direct mail bolt-on.
Speaker 2:So, the dog that wags the tail is the direct mail program, and so therefore digital needs to behave like direct mail, and I think the reality is like I've had a lot of unorthodox, I guess, if you want to call it that like digital programs. And I think that spans to certain nonprofit industry segments like higher education, where historically, broadway's annual fundraising programs had to require somebody to come through kind of the campus experience, submission of the organization and then graduate on and then develop their career as a professional and create liquid assets that they could get back to a charitable cause like their alma mater. And I think, you know, what we've been able to do is kind of break that conventional thinking and instead look at okay, meeting people where they're at, and saying look, if nobody could experience the campus or sit in a classroom, how can we take the mission of the organization out to them?
Speaker 2:And what do you have available to you that we could package in a way to go interrupt somebody's day with digital, to meet them where they're at? Because I don't think people go online looking to give donations. They don't just grab their phone and go. How can I make a charitable donation today? But in the digital channel what we have to do is find ways to interrupt their day and then understand what might be of interest to them and start a conversation at that point. And it's through that kind of content offer development and ad distribution model that we've been able to develop over the last 10 years that has become so effective at taking the mission of a charitable nonprofit, especially one that has historically thought of themselves as kind of regionally limited, in expanding the scope of their available donor pool to wherever a donor might be, based upon what their interests are.
Speaker 2:And I think then the question is like what does digital look like once you disrupt that whole kind of continuum of thought, right. And so just being opportunistic, with it, I think, is the key.
Speaker 1:I mean, I would love to envision a world where people are just sitting on their couch being like how can I give away my money today?
Speaker 3:That would be what a glorious what a glorious thing that would be.
Speaker 1:They make our jobs a lot easier. Yeah right, absolutely, man. That would just be so nice, but to your point, especially in today's market, we've really got to get that attention out there and grab folks attention, because you have to give them a reason to stop scrolling. Well, and I think that they pay attention.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and to that, Megan, it's not to get them to stop for the sake of stopping because we're so awesome, Of course, and the organization is so awesome, right, it is a matter of connecting with their felt needs.
Speaker 3:I mean, it goes back to the fundamentals of fundraising, is that?
Speaker 3:You know?
Speaker 3:We hear all the time is that, like people give to people, we actually expand that and say people give when they feel connected to people.
Speaker 3:And so you know, when we're interrupting their day, it's not to say like look how awesome and big we are, you know, or whatever the newest I don't know thing that you're doing at the nonprofit that you think that people are excited about. They're just, they're not going to be because people are trying to find something that is personal to them, connects with them, aligns with them, and so that interruption, as Greg was mentioning, like he talked about content, offers or I would even just say something of value to them, what is going to connect with them, whether it's a belief, a resource, something that is something that is a value to them, that will make them stop and say, oh yes, I believe, I agree, I want, I need and that's the big part is is not to be splashy with necessarily branding to say we're so great it's to to really understand the person on the other end, what they might be dealing with, needing or desiring.
Speaker 1:So but that's such a hard switch, right, because we are in our organizations day in, day out, we know what we're excited about, right. And it feels I don't know. It almost feels backwards to like I'm not going to be. I want to. I have to put myself in a different framework. Is that something that you find nonprofits struggle with a whole lot? And, if so, how do we get over that hump to like flip the script?
Speaker 3:Very much so yeah.
Speaker 1:Cause it seems so counterintuitive.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, actually it's. It's human nature that so we're. You're telling us that we have to go, like, think about what others care about, but like I care about me, the organization. So it's such a funny thing because we're trying to put ourselves with that hat of the donor on, like with their perspective in mind, and it actually goes against everything that we have been told, taught, learned in the fundraising space is best practices, this is how we show up and represent. But if the reality, if the truth is, is that people give when people feel connected to others, then, like, we have to be authentic and human and that's the whole. The whole goal is we can't be Greg what do you call it? Like, we can't be like Pizza Hut, like in their inboxes.
Speaker 1:Unpack that for me.
Speaker 2:Have you ever gotten an email from like a Pizza Hut or a Domino's, just to be an equal opportunity? Sure.
Speaker 1:Yes, I have received pizza emails.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, describe what that process looks like. It's highly stylized, it's impersonal, it's all about them. It's what kind of pizzas and pizza specials and maybe like combo things that drive up their revenue? Okay, that is pizza. That's different than a charitable organization, because you know it's a commodity. You're trying to solve the problem of what's for dinner and so they can just batch and blast this highly stylized, you know, highly polished kind of brand email to you and just focus on how much money you'll save if you put breadsticks with it or something like that, but, like when we're trying to talk about our missions, it's very different, Right?
Speaker 2:Because at the end of the day, like we're not discounting, you know, we're not solving a problem at you know, like your family and your household, which is like what's for dinner?
Speaker 2:it's a much bigger and a societal problem that we're working on and what we have to be able to do is kind of like meet people where they're at and begin the conversation with them in a very radically different way. And I think nonprofit organizations by default, especially the ones that are running their digital programs, cut from the cloth of that direct mail. First kind of mentality what they're doing is they're kind of like replicating and protecting the big brand image. What they're doing is they're kind of like replicating and protecting the big brand image and what that is, honestly, candidly, what that's doing is it's separating them from a personal connection with this organization. It separates them even from the people that actually take the mission and make it an extension of what they're doing in their broad based communications.
Speaker 2:And so, even if we're like trying to educate somebody, just to stick in, stay in the you know, the higher education kind of vertical where it's like, you know, we educate students, they come onto the campus, they are here for four years, maybe five for some of us and then they graduate, right, but our mission is to educate students. And if you take that mentality and what you do instead is you take the information that you would teach in a classroom and you package it in a way that you make that available to the donor audiences, kind of friends to the college that are not on the student, you know roles or whatever you know enrollment, kind of. Then what you're doing is you're taking your mission, you're moving it outside of the four walls of the campus, you're finding people wherever they're at across the country or across the world, and what you're doing is you're really delivering on the mission of the organization by educating other people.
Speaker 2:You just happen to do it through an online course or something like that, right, where you make the teaching available to them and then even I mean you can bolt that up if you want it and offer certifications or something like that but you don't even need to do that, because, at the end of the day, your mission is to educate people, and so what you should do is you should find ways to educate people and then you should put that in your legal program and you should promote what the other person is getting. And what they're getting is a free education from a highly reputable and established institution, and they get to better themselves through interacting with your brand, and that's how the most effective digital programs that we've worked on actually kind of take that mentality. So if you're always thinking, not how do I raise money, but rather how do I get people to care, well, you give them access to your mission access to your mission.
Speaker 1:If you want to spend less time on paperwork and more time making an impact, we have the solution for you. With Adobe Acrobat Pro, you can streamline reports, speed up contracts with e-signatures and create polished PDFs that inspire donors and engage volunteers. Work smarter with cloud access, top-tier security and powerful editing tools designed for teams on a mission. And with special nonprofit pricing it's efficiency you can afford. Apply for your discount now at adobecom slash nonprofits, slash Acrobat. Okay, so I'm going to go back to your Pizza Hut email for a minute, because I had like a little bit of a light bulb moment as you were talking about this, wherein, like if Pizza Hut just sends me their basic, like here's all of your options for dinner tonight and bolt on the breadsticks and whatever, fine. But man, my light bulb moment was around. What if Pizza Hut or, fill in the blank, like my local shop down the street here? What if that email reflected what I ordered last time yeah, and instead said like hey, it's been a while since you, you know, picked up the pepperoni. What if that email reflected what I ordered last time yeah, and instead said like hey, it's been a while since you, you know, picked up the pepperoni lover or whatever the you know, whatever the thing is. When I now feel like they know who I am, you got it Right, and so I'm thinking about that in terms of what you're talking about, greg, of like we understand who these folks are and what they want. We understand who these folks are and what they want.
Speaker 1:I got an email not too long ago, a fundraising email, from a nonprofit that I have supported in the past. I volunteer regularly with this group on the performing arts programming that they offer, and the email that they sent me for fundraising was all focused on their athletics programs. Now, I am zero athletic. There's like I have. No, this is not my like, not my bandwidth, and it's maybe not a passion or a cause that I am like going to connect to. But if that same email would have gone to me with just a couple language changes and a photo change about performing arts, I'm going to be much more likely to engage with. So I think that's the other piece of digital that's so important is the ability or I guess ideal is the ability to personalize Well and with it, Megan, you actually.
Speaker 3:we're talking about Pizza Hut, think about any brand, anything that you purchase or buy, the best experiences. Feel human, feel personal, right I love plants.
Speaker 3:My plant lady. She's not my lady, but she texts me, at least I think she texts me. It's all automated, but I feel seen and heard and that we're friends. I it's even like big brands, like airlines. I got a postcard in like when I was sitting in the back of an airplane and I was not in some like preferred seat, but they wrote me a postcard told me how much they value me. I'm like, oh my gosh, thank you so much. I love you too.
Speaker 3:And it's not just like that you feel seen and recognized. There's also an element of this of like expectation. So what has happened in the digital space with all of these brands, like big brands outside of the nonprofit spaces? They have created this expectation that. I just saw the Amazon truck drive by past my house, which was actually shocking that he kept driving because he's usually stopping.
Speaker 3:When I buy something on Amazon, what happens? Right away? I am expecting that that email is there. I get a confirmation. It uses my name, it tells me how many days it's going to be till I get it.
Speaker 3:They're constantly updating me and that is what we have come to expect from businesses, and so we're crazy to think that donors, prospective donors, don't have those same expectations on us as nonprofits and so we have to meet them. We have to meet those expectations because when we meet expectations we build trust and trust, you know, builds loyalty and no wonder why we have these major retention issues at nonprofits, like, I think, the last status on the last four years retention is down like 12% just in the last four years, and so we have something has to change. And if we don't get serious about digital and we only say serious about digital is like go try and do things more than just the email bus, start to kind of meet the expectations that people have for you as a nonprofit, I know we will see those numbers turn, and I know we will because we run programs that are meeting those expectations, where retention rates are improving because we're being human at scale and building that trust, you know. So, anyways, I just I'm like, yeah, they can do it, so can we.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes that's a great phrase, though I love the phrase of being human at scale.
Speaker 2:That's so good well, the reality is like yes, everything that cordy said is right. I mean we've seen this like in the general consumer behaviorism kind of reports that come out whether it's e-market or anybody else. That is like packaging up how people consume media and how they interact with their favorite brands. It's almost entirely online now, right, and those for-profit organizations have buku bucks. They're driving profits, they've got big agency contracts and they've got tons of data on the customers to go personalize those kind of experiences right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the reality is that the nonprofits have a mountain of first-party data about their donors, whether it's engagement, behavior information, whether it's giving information, volunteerism, event participation, et cetera. And there's just such a wealth of information in the nonprofit space that just isn't being utilized. But the technology is now at a level where it enables that. It's just not strategically put to use. And, to your point, megan, like we use a heuristic to determine marketing effectiveness, and the only multiplicative value in that everything is additive, is subtractive in that formula. But the only thing that's multiplicative that gives you the biggest lift is relevance. But the only thing that's multiplicative that gives you the biggest lift is relevance. No-transcript, leaving opportunity on the table.
Speaker 1:Okay. So let's imagine and I would love to think that this is true, but let's imagine for a moment that the folks who are listening to this particular episode I know a lot of them are in that seat right. A lot of them are like head of fundraising, head of advancement, whatever term you want to use in that particular vertical, and I think a lot of them are probably in that same boat. Where digital has been a bolted on, we've taken the same principles that we apply to all of our other things and just assumed that it would work over here on the digital space. If someone really wants to take that kind of first step of doing digital for digital sake, right, or like making it actually work, where do we even get started? What's like the first thing you would say to somebody either to test or to try Base level. Where do we start?
Speaker 3:I mean there's kind of two. There's two fronts of this. I think there's the technology side, that there's probably some assessment and understanding of what is possible with your technology. So there's that and we could talk about that whole. That's a whole other conversation. In fact, we even will do like these jumpstart programs. We'll like look at your systems and platforms and say, hey, here are all the fixes that are needed to have to be able to grow and scale a digital program. So like there's the technology backend stuff on the very practical, like I'm listening today and I want to do something the moment I'm done listening to this. Where do I begin? Is I'm inspired I want to move right.
Speaker 3:Whatever your next communication piece is is actually that's. That's where I would start is is to change the way that you think about that message going out and go from your pizza hut email to something more human, more real and authentic. And a great litmus test for this is to just write it Like you're talking to your friend. I mean like, if I'm going to email you, megan, I'm not going to be like Megan, this is Courtney Cruz. You know, go on like I'm like. Hey, like how are you, how's your day? I hope you're doing well. I just wanted to let you know x, y and z. It's conversational, and a great litmus test of that is, once you write it, read it out loud and you will quickly see how non-human it is and where you need to make some of those tweaks.
Speaker 3:But I would just say, like, whatever that next communication piece is, see how much more human you can be. And it's not just be like OK, we're changing our brand. No, no, no, no, we're just trying to connect with people on the other end, other end, and that's where I would just say, that's where the power really kind of happens and shines in digital is that you can have real live conversations with folks, that this is not a medium where you're just shooting it out, blasting it out and you like kind of clean your hands of it and you're just like, yes, the thing is done, no, no, no. We want to have the expectation that it's a conversation. So if you send something out to them, expectation that it's a conversation so if you send something out to them, you should actually invite them to to comment back, to reply back to that email that you sent or, um, get, have them share their opinion with you.
Speaker 3:Whatever the thing is, it's a conversation and that's where that that relationship starts. And so that's where I would start is just like changing the way that we talk to people. Um, we use this phrase, megan, at Amplify. We're like don't be a bot, we're like be a human, yes, and. And just see what can happen within your, within your program. It's truly the way that we've been able to scale digital programs is being human at scale, being authentic at scale.
Speaker 1:I love it. Okay, so if we are truly inspired at this point and we want to learn more, maybe even to work with Amplify, how do we find you guys connect more with you or learn more about what you guys are doing at Amplify?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure. So you can find us at AmplifyFR, which stands for fundraising, Amplify Fundraising.
Speaker 3:Or For Real. If you want to say For Real, which?
Speaker 2:stands for fundraising, Amplify Fundraising, or for real if you want to say for real, Amplifyforrealcom. And so we're online. We're in the process of taking some of this information and just like packaging it into blog posts and I think you know there's an email registration there if you want to follow kind of the latest and greatest in terms of what we discovered. I think what we plan to do is just not overload the inbox, but take stuff that we're learning real time and what causes it to work, and then package it into that email so that we can have kind of easy tips for people to replicate or to learn from and make use of inside of their programs to inspire generosity.
Speaker 1:I love it. Well, guys, as we wrap up, the question that we've been closing every episode with so far this season is if you could give one piece of advice or encouragement or wisdom to nonprofit leaders. Obviously, everyone's had a very interesting year. A lot of our sector has been hit pretty hard across the board on all sorts of different fronts. So if you could give one piece of advice to, or wisdom, encouragement to, those leaders, what would you say? And, courtney, I'll start with you.
Speaker 3:It's not about perfection, it's about man being authentic. So, again, not to continue to drum that you know that whole beat of being human, but I can't emphasize it enough. And so you know, whether you've got the challenges or struggles that you've experienced this year or you don't even know where to begin, is like you don't have to be perfect in what you're doing, like it doesn't have to be polished, just try something, do something. Different is the emphasis here is don't worry about what people have told you, like this is how it should look, like what it should sound like. Be different, be real, authentic and not perfect.
Speaker 1:I love it, Greg. How about you?
Speaker 2:For me, I would say. You know, the one thing that I run into the most is the executive leadership looks at the digital channel like a P&L.
Speaker 3:So they say I put this many dollars in.
Speaker 2:I should get this many dollars out.
Speaker 2:I think the thing that makes digital probably more unique than any other channel is that it can be an additive piece of the recipe to everything that you're doing.
Speaker 2:Whether it's finding different ways to kind of lift the performance in another channel, in finding a way to kind of attribute the activity and the investment of the limited resources that we have in a nonprofit organization in the digital channel.
Speaker 2:So whether that's like running emails to people that we're going to send a direct mail to we've run experiments on that and seen that it increases the response rates and overall the output of the direct mail letter. Just saying, hey, I put something in the mail, be on the lookout for it, and then following up after we know it delivered in homes and just like if you had any questions, feel free to reach out, let me know. I'd be. I'd love to have somebody just answer those for you. Just something like that is a real practical way where, if you've got a direct mail program or already running and that's kind of where the lion's share of your direct response revenues is being generated find ways to just be creative with digital and just put one foot in front of the other and see if it can produce a better outcome in the channels that you've already committed to I love it.
Speaker 1:Uh, so good, thanks guys. This has been a fantastic conversation. Appreciate you both taking the time today thanks, megan, appreciate you absolutely, again, my guests have been courtney cruz and Greg Kalunga, who are the managing partners at Amplify Fundraising. My name is Megan Spear. This has been another episode of the Nonprofit Hub Radio podcast and we'll see you next time.