Nonprofit Hub Radio
Whether starting a nonprofit or taking an existing cause to the next level, The Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast is about breaking down how nonprofits can grow. Each episode features an interview with a sector star with insight, stories, or ideas that can take your nonprofit from good to excellence. Join host Meghan Speer every week to make your good go further!
Nonprofit Hub Radio
Capacity, Culture, and Connection: The Keys to a Thriving Nonprofit Team
Urgent programs and tight grants can push culture work to the margins, but that’s exactly where nonprofit teams lose speed and trust. We sit down with strategist Page Hinerman of Page Capacity Builders to unpack how hybrid and remote teams thrive when leaders treat culture as core infrastructure. From rethinking “all‑staff” meetings to redesigning one‑on‑ones, we get tactical about turning updates into strategy, building psychological safety, and aligning back‑office work with frontline impact.
Page shares battle‑tested ideas from years of capacity building across nonprofits, philanthropy, and government. We talk about the small moves that change everything: 10‑minute norms at the start of staff meetings, values activation that gets specific (transparency becomes shared budgets and decision logs), and monthly cross‑functional touchpoints that keep marketing and fundraising anchored in program reality. If your hybrid team feels siloed or transactional, you’ll learn how to reset communications, protect relational time, and make space for trust without sacrificing delivery.
We also dig into hiring and sustainability. Using values to screen candidates prevents costly misalignment and lowers turnover; planning sooner—long before a grant deadline—keeps compliance tight and teams steady. Page outlines how consultants can fill true capacity gaps while leaving behind tools, skills, and networks so organizations sustain progress after the engagement ends. Expect clear steps you can try this week and a mindset shift that reframes culture from “nice to have” into the fastest route to outcomes.
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SPEAKER_01:Welcome back to the Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast. I'm your host, Megan Spear. Joined today by Paige Heinerman, who is the founder and chief strategist at Paige Capacity Builders. Paige, welcome in. Super excited to have you here today. Hi, Megan. Thanks so much for having me. I'm glad to be here. So good. Okay, so I am excited for digging into this conversation. It's not one that I think we've had on the podcast, at least lately. So I think that that's going to be super exciting. But before we dig into that, go ahead and tell the audience just a little bit about yourself, kind of your story and how you got to the work that you're doing today that has led us to this conversation.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. Good question. So I started doing social impact work in about 2008. And I was in an organization, and I have a few stories about that related to what we're going to talk about today, too. I was in an organization that was providing direct services on the ground in Baltimore City. I was in admin, so I was doing grants management, fund development work, right? So I wasn't necessarily providing services, but I was doing the work to support those services. And it was an amazing time in my career. It was an amazing place to start a career in that social nonprofit sector. And then from there, I really had the ability to do a lot of creation of programming that extended across the country. They were really fortunate to have funding that allowed them to do training and technical assistance to other organizations. And I was tasked with that. And so through that, I branched off and created my own consulting business doing very much of the same work. There's just so much need for capacity support in the social sector, whether it's in the profit, philanthropy, or government. We know not everybody, not every position is always hired when it should be. There are gaps in resources, gaps in staffing, whether it's knowledge, skills, just capacity. And so that's really where I plug in. My experience for a decade in the other on-the-ground nonprofit really gave me, it was a great testing ground to create and develop and really hone my skills in a variety of areas related to organizational development and sustainability. So that's kind of how I got into all of this.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And I feel like, especially at some of the conferences I've been to lately and just kind of some of the conversations that I'm seeing on LinkedIn, understanding capacity is the buzzword right now. Right. People are, I feel like finally starting to have these conversations where previously, especially in nonprofit, it's been something that we've kind of glossed over as like, well, just how it is because of the budget. It's just how it is because of staffing, whatever the case may be. And I feel like we're finally in a moment where people are starting to say, maybe it doesn't have to be that way.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. Which is kind of exciting, I think. Yeah, it is because you know, you don't, it doesn't have to operate this way. It really doesn't. And when you look at the work that folks are doing, like sometimes it's the life-saving work, literally life-saving. You know, you're you're housing people, you're feeding people, you're ensuring equitable access to education, to health resources, so many things, right? That so many of us just take for granted because we have that access or we have the that connectivity. But when you really see that, it really drives, you know, the desire to push that work and teach people you don't have to, you don't have to struggle like this. We don't have to do it like this. There, there are other ways to build capacity. I think too, with that, I always remind folks, you know, we're not good at everything. We can't be good at everything. And that's okay. And it's okay to say, like, I can't, like, maybe I have the skill, but I'm only one person, and there's only, you know, 24 hours in the day. So it's not a it's not a deficit thing. And I think that's some of the mindset shift and culture shift we've gotten to or started to get to in the sector as a whole, of like, it's okay to ask for help. It's not a deficit if you don't have the capacity because there are people out there to support it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Okay. So part of, and I think this is where we're gonna really dig in today. Part of building that capacity, right? And we've had such a shift in options for this, is on hybrid teams, right? Of like of in and out or fully remote or you know, people who might not be seeing each other on a daily basis. I think the pandemic gave us all an eye-opener on what is possible for hybrid. But it also, I think, can it bring up questions, especially for leadership and that's uh you yikes, it's such a debate about how do we trust and empower those folks? Right? How do we make sure that the team is still a team and still has camaraderie and still is supporting each other well when we're not face to face all the time? So I'd love to hear from you. Maybe let's just start as a jumping off point. Let's talk about an example of someone that you have worked with that has done this well. What does it look like for a hybrid team to be performing well?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Well, admittedly, I will say that folks come to me because they're usually needing some areas, which is okay. Sure. Okay, right. We have the conversation of like, and this this is the reality, right? Is like folks are doing the work. They're doing the work, but you have to make speech. There's other work that has to be done internally, whether it's internally as a person or internally as a team or internally as an organization, that we don't focus on enough. Um, and then you start to see cracks in it happening. And we, you know, talk about these touchy-feely words like culture building and um your values, right? And again, getting into the sector and some of the mindset shift. I think we're getting there to really like put action behind those things. Okay, this isn't just about like touchy-feely, um, the nonprofit. You know, you like I hear folks that are not in the social sector, you know, think that we're kind of touch and go. Um it's all about emotions and feelings and hasn't, and it's like, no, this work is heavily rooted in research, evidence-based, you know, well-tested practices, but it's like I mentioned before, it's critical work. This is timely, urgent work. Um, and so when you're doing that, people often don't step back and take the time to do intentional things like culture setting, values activation, trust building, team building, you know, all those things. Um, and we're kind of like, no, no, no, we got to get to the, we have to get to that grant deadline. We have to get to the deadline to ensure these folks don't miss their housing opportunity at the shelter tonight. We have to, you know, so there's so many variables that rightfully and understandably so pull us away from this other work. But what ends up happening over time, unless you are like some special unicorn team, and leadership it plays the biggest role here, right? But you you have to just really make the space for it. And so I teach often a lot teams how to make that space because it feels daunting. It feels like, well, we we barely have the time to meet as a team. How the heck are we gonna make space to team build or whatever? You know, and so then we get into questions like, well, how are you using your staff meetings? What do you do in that space? And then the questions, you know, oh wow, well, that's a we give updates. And I always caution folks like updates can be an email. Updates are important, it's and sometimes in a team culture, that's how you guys connect, that's how you celebrate, but the bulk of that can be in an email, even if it's every week, once a month, whatever cadence folks decide, you can save pull one update out that maybe is a celebration or a success that you can share and take up maybe five minutes versus 45 minutes of the hour. Um and then that activity in itself is building trust, right? That consistent celebration is a touch point of happiness and joy for people. It's also another space for people to be like, wow, we you know, we were a bit updated on this thing that's going on for the that team over there, you know. So I think there are a lot of a lot of things that can be done. But yeah, people typically come to me because they need some support. But the beautiful thing, right? But the beautiful thing is that you can see in real time, because we're talking about like hybrid or remote teams, right, that aren't together all the time. And typically when they are together, they're doing the work.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Uh they say the team, well, you'll hear, well, we have our in-person all-staff meeting once a month. And that space usually ends up being for updates, you know. And I'm like, okay, half of that meeting should be for strategizing, future planning, sustainability planning, and the other half of that time should be for team building, trust building, culture building, value setting, values alignment, implementation. There's so much that can be done there that actually directly impacts the work. But funders don't want to hear about that, right? It's not something that you're reporting, it's not a data point you're collecting. It's not an activity that was funded. And so I think, you know, we get a bit away from that of doing it, you know, because we're in the realm of like, okay, these are our funded priorities and activities. But once folks realize the impact that your culture, the trust on the team has on the success of those activities is when you really start to understand why it's so important to do them.
SPEAKER_01:That's so good. I feel like so often in this sector, you're you are absolutely correct, right? We've we have taken a kind of mindset where like only the frontline deliverable work matters, right? I was actually just working with an organization a couple weeks ago and I went to their all their staff meeting. You know who wasn't invited to the staff meeting? The folks which like I I can see the face you're making. I can make a few guesses. Why would anybody not be invited to this staff meeting? The people who were not invited were the folks who worked in, I would say, like back office tasks. Oh, interesting. Right? It was uh the folks from fundraising and development and marketing and HR and accounting, right? None of those folks were in the room. It was this the all-staff meeting, and I'm putting that in air quotes, was for frontline uh boots on the ground serving the constituents of that organization, right? And they had what's so funny is that they had brought me in to do some consulting work for marketing and fundraising because they felt like what marketing and fundraising was talking about didn't match the mission of what was happening. And I was like, Yeah, but if you don't ever let them come to the meeting, how are they supposed to know what's happening? Right. And so, like, I it that was a pretty easy disconnect to solve, if you will, right? Yeah. But so often we get stuck in a us and them, right? There's the the doers of the mission, and then there's the people behind the scenes who are making the mission happen in their own administrative or marketing kind of ways. Talk about how as a leader we can bridge that gap. How do how do we embrace the idea of like whole team instead of just because individual teams are important, and don't get me wrong. The frontline folks need to have a place for them to talk about how they are going to deliver that product best, right? The marketing team has to have a meeting to talk about what the campaign is going to look like and they should be working with development on that. Cool. But at the end of the day, that big if you are the leader of the big overarching umbrella, how do we build consistent like cohesiveness across team as a whole?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, so I'll just give real life examples and stories from my own direct experiences because it's even in how you set up the space where people are sitting. Oh, okay. Um yeah, so oftentimes, and every organization is different, but if you think about a direct service organization that is supporting the community where folks are coming in, receiving services kind of flowing in and out of the building, a building, oftentimes that happens on the first floor. Obviously, if there's multiple floors, it's you know all over. But let's say it's a two or three-story building, and all of your service direct services are happening on the first or maybe first and second floor. And then you have your admin staff that's on the third floor. You have created this ivory tower unintentionally, right? And so you have the best people at the top of the food chain because this is just how we think as humans, it's how we're socialized to think, it's how we're educated to think. And we do, as adults, even like unconsciously, subconsciously think these ways. So there's a lot of psychology that goes into trust building uh really effectively. This is not stuff here, folks. This is like the real deal. So even creating that space, so being really intentional about where people are sitting, what their titles are, um, how they interact with the different teams. You know, you and I have both talked about like the team meeting space. You know, it should be an inclusive space, not an exclusive space. And then each of those individual teams should have their own individual space because they do specific things that the rest of us can't, you know, it's not relatable, it's not relevant. Um, and they need to do their work. But even in that space, that can look really different, right? And that's up to that individual leader, whether it's a you know, team of one, two, or twenty on a small team, you know, it can look so many different ways in how you operate that. When I dealt with or worked with organizations with a hybrid model where they're coming in and out, um like the cadence of the meetings and those touch points, the communications, those are another huge thing. Like, how are you communicating? When are you communicating? About what are you communicating? I have asked leaders, so when, because I've seen on teams, well, okay, tell me about your one-on-ones you're having with your team. And if it's um, I recently had a leader say, because there was there were folks feeling left out, like they're not having one-on-ones, and we make assumptions about why we're not having those one-on-ones, even though we know we shouldn't do that, like we shouldn't look up our illness on web and on DMD, but we still do it and self-diagnose. So, you know, it's it's a habit, but when I asked the leader, like, okay, tell me about your one-on-one structure, and she said, I'm I have meeting one-on-one meetings when I need something. Oh, and so there were there's a lot there, right? So there's a conversation with the leader of okay, well, let's flip the script a bit. How would you feel if someone just connected with you when they needed something from you? Yeah, and I I talk a lot about this in fundraising too, right? Sure. The relationship is the key to unlocking dollars to unlocking trust to unlocking so, so many things. And so helping this individual understand the importance of your behavior, your actions. She had no intention of being more transactional, she had no idea, right? And that's why it's also important we make the space to step back and reflect on these things, you know. So we can we can ask ourselves these questions, like, how am I showing up?
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:What do folks and asking? If you're afraid to ask that, you know, like that's a telltale sign right there, that there's probably some some flags. Or if you're finding like you're really frustrated with your team, um, when people feel like they're not performing, they're how they just never meet the expectations. I would really take a hard look at yourself and say, okay, like what am I not communicating in a way that can be received by them because you're not the audience, they are. And so that can really get in into things as well with communication, how we show up.
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SPEAKER_01:The majority of our audience on the podcast, as we know, is nonprofit leaders, right? So they are either CEOs or founders or heads of departments. Generally, in you know, I would say some of the startup to mid-sized organizations. That tends to be who our audience is. So if those leaders are listening today and they're going, oh, yeah, that sounds like us, right? Oh, maybe I have been making those mistakes and I I can now that I think about it and someone who brings it to light, I can see myself in that. If that's, I want to have you speak to that person for a moment. Right. If all of a sudden they have had this revelation of like, oh yeah, I do only talk to my team when I need something. Oh yeah, I haven't done a good job at being vulnerable and building that relationship and letting some of that stuff in. That it can like anything else, right? Changes is hard. And so we have we have to kind of take it step by step because changing everything all at once, like it'd be lovely if I could just flip a switch and all of my culture problems were fixed, right? Yeah. My whole team trusted me and everything is amazing. I would love that. Uh, but if someone's listening and they're going, yeah, you know, that is us. That is me. We really need to take some steps here. Where would you tell them to start? Because sometimes even just figuring out that first step can be a little bit overwhelming. So it's easier to just stay the way we are because I don't even know how to start to fix the problem. So, where would you tell them to start? What's that first step look like?
SPEAKER_02:I would say too, Megan, even if folks aren't convinced, even if you're saying, yeah, my team is not performing or these things are not going well or whatever, but you're still not convinced that you have the time or you want to take the time for this stuff, it's even more of a like test it out. Like just try it and see what happens. Absolutely. And there's a lot of places you can start. So it's good, that's a really good question. One thing I the first thing I recommend is formalizing what you're gonna do by announcing it, right? Like communicate it to the team. Hey, our culture is really important, the team is really important. We can't do this work without one another. If we don't trust each other, if we don't have strong relationships, you know, then the work is harder. I mean, the research proves it.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:If we don't have psychological safety on the team, if we don't have role clarity, if we don't have, you know, unbiased uh, you know, scenarios, if there's inconsistent communication, things like that, right? All of that breaks things down. One place I recommend starting, other than saying to the team, we're gonna do something about this. Like we're gonna go on a little adventure together as a team. We're gonna test some things out. In your staff meeting, just start the first 10 minutes. Start by like codifying team norms.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:You can even yep. So this is your meetings, how you communicate, the timeliness of communications, expectations. And this can be on an org-wide level, it can be like 30,000, but almost things that would touch everybody. You can use your values as a launching place for that conversation. Um, you could take it one value at a time. How do we activate this value in our daily work and be really specific? So if you have a value of transparency, for example, I would go deep. You don't want to start with saying something like, I'm transparent because we have team meetings and I share updates. That's too broad. We want to be really specific and say, I love the value of transparency because in my one-on-one meetings with my team, I have them consistently. I provide space for a two-way agenda, and I uh ensure that the program manager has their most up-to-date budget so that they can operate their program. Right. So that's like real specific things about transparency because then you'll start to realize where your gaps are. If you're too broad, you you can't see the gaps. And so I'd say, you know, with the codifying the team norms and you can use the values as a place for that. You could do that in 10 minutes. You could even take it if you really don't have the time, use it in 10 minutes of your team meeting. Everybody goes around and just shares maybe the most of the value that they most connect with from the organization and why. You know, that's one you could do that in one meeting, maybe the next meeting you build on that, and you take one of the values, and everybody talks about how they activate that. You know, so you can build little mini things into that. If you did that with each of your values, just going through the exercise, you're building trust, you're learning about one another, you learn things. Oh wow, um, Sally really doesn't like phone communication. I have no idea. You know, these are some of those organic things and conversations that start to come up as you're talking about things that seem unrelated, but we're not robots, we're humans, we're beings that function, and we spend a lot of time at work. And especially if you're in the nonprofit sector, you know, we're doing this out of a passion and a desire to make an effect positive change. And that is exhausting. And it is, you know, it's I'm so glad you said that.
SPEAKER_01:I'm so glad you said that because part of me has as we're talking about this is like, yes, absolutely we need to be doing all these things. But also the work that we're doing is right on the front lines and we're serving and we're doing, and that work is critical and so important. And at some point, the balance of all of the critical things is a lot and it's heavy and it's exhausting, right? So I I do, I'm so glad you said that because I'm sure that there are other people listening going, I hear you. That sounds great. I just don't really see how I can have that time.
SPEAKER_02:I know, and some teams don't even have the capacity to have a team meeting. You know, you can get together once a quarter, even if it's just virtually for an hour, you know, once every three months and just do team building. You can just focus on that, you know, or you could do half team building and maybe half updates is what y'all need. There's no one size fits all, is also what I'll say. Is know your culture. If you're not sure what your organizational culture is, and I know we're talking about trust, but that's a piece of it. If you're not sure, then that's a flag to figure it out, you know, like that's an indicator of oh, if I can't put words to this, and I'm not talking about reading your mission vision statement. That's not the culture, that's the work you're doing. So because it gets into hiring practices and it'll get into you'll get five million applications. How do you whittle that down? One really quick way is to connect your values with their resume, you know. There's so many things because when you hire the wrong people that are not aligned with the culture of your organization, is when you start to have these problems, and that's why turnover can be high, other than burnout is a real thing. That's a cultural piece too, right? Yeah. Um, we burn the candle at both ends, that's a norm. Is that a you know? We say those things. Is that on like we're living norms that are not on paper? We're not living the norms that are on paper.
SPEAKER_01:Right. There's no job description that's gonna say we expect you to be available 16 hours a day on the weekends or what yeah, that's not gonna be in there, but it is certainly a piece of culture because the work is so important.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. So it's like, how can we balance all of that since we know it's an issue to prevent the burnout, prevent the turnover, because that increases your costs. It reduces your bottom line, you know, when you don't have someone in there providing the services, when your finance person is gone, you know, there's a big gap. And that sometimes really trips folks up. Yeah. Um, I have seen people just totally lose their whole thing because they just couldn't get, you know, over that hump. And really like taking a step back and really, who are we hiring? How are we hiring? Why are we hiring them? How are they aligned? Um, when I do hiring for people, I I ask um people questions like, you know, which value stood out to you the most from the organization? What one, you know, what value of the organization resonates, unless you don't have them publicly available. But it tells you a lot about a person. Did they even take the time to find and research that look at that? No, it's so good. Because if that's something important to you, and I'm sure it is important to folks, then it needs to be important to the people you're hiring. Or there's immediate misalignment. Because if communication is one of your big values and you have someone who does not prioritize communication, there will be immediate, immediate barriers and challenges for the team.
SPEAKER_01:So good. So I think I'm gonna I'm gonna segue us out a little bit here because I'd love to learn a little bit more, Paige, about the work that Page Capacity Builders does. Because in my mind, it it's none of this can happen unless we have the capacity to do it, right? So it's hard to build trust in a team that doesn't have capacity or enough people. So tell us a little bit about the work that you do.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, really good point. So um I uh I started Page Capacity Builders, oh, bless you, about 11 years ago. And because I saw the need in the field, like folks' capacity was low, or there were consultants coming in and doing low quality work that was upsetting to me because you know, these are this is hard money for people to find and to you know use it on someone talk about trust, right? Someone you think you can trust, uh it it hurts. So really my role is within strategy design, facilitation, organizational development work. And when we talk about strategy, I do a lot of things related to data strategy, fundraising strategy, communication strategy, all things that are like organizationally related. Um, it's very broad, but I did say I had really great testing grounds for about a decade where I actually created basically an organization around training and technical assistance within another organization. So that's you know, essentially what I do for others. It's often that I'm doing, I'm playing a role that is not a hired role for staff, right? You have you don't usually hire someone for their strategy ability. Um, you know, can they facilitate? Do they have the content expertise in this area? Can they write grants? Do they, you know, so it's something more specific. And so I often fill the capacity, capacities where there isn't necessarily a hired person for that, or maybe there is a hired person for that, but their own capacity, they just can't take more on. Um, and so that's where where I come in. Yeah, I can't imagine doing anything else. I love to partner with my clients. Yeah, I really can't. I love to partner with my clients and build their capacity in ways that help them sustain beyond me, right? If they have to continue to pay a consultant, that's not truly building their capacity because they'll uh consultants are not cheap. Right. You know, it's not, it's not cheap. Well, it ends up usually being cheaper than a staff person, but it's not cheap, you know, to do that, whether it's a staff person or a consultant. So I want to build their ability to know how to do the work better, to have the tools to do the work better, the knowledge to do the work better, and the networks. And so I really pride myself in not just like plugging in and plugging out, really plug in and help build their capacity truly and then ease my way out, you know, when that time comes and when when they're ready for that. So yeah, that's a little bit about me. I love it.
SPEAKER_01:Uh and if we wanted to learn more about that work, where would we find you?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn um under my name, Paige Heinerman. Um, I do love to share resources there a lot. Um, and then I also have a website, page capacitybuilders.com. I'll just share more about you know my clients and the type of work I do there. I also have a blog there too, because I just love sharing resources.
SPEAKER_01:I can't help it. So good. I love it. Okay, so one final question as we wrap up because I mean, so good. I feel like we could do a whole separate episode on capacity, but we'll get there down the line. But in the meantime, the question that I've been asking everyone as we close each interview this season is if you could give one piece of wisdom or encouragement to nonprofit leaders right now in this season, what would it be?
SPEAKER_02:Start planning sooner than later. Whatever it is, do not put it off. Um, I do a lot of sustainability work with the federal government and their new grantees that have never had federal funds. And it is heartbreaking when leaders wait to the last minute. So just plan whatever it is. If you're thinking about doing, oh, we need to get to that team building stuff, we need do it. Don't wait. Just don't wait because you'll never get to it and the opportunities will pass. And if you're not convinced or you just really don't think you have the time, try it, just take 10 minutes, just little baby steps, and you will see and consistency. Yes. I'm sorry, you asked for one thing, and I'm like, that's okay. I'll take two for one. The consistency of those actions, just keep it going, and over time you will see change.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, so good. Paige, thank you. This has been a really good conversation, and I think given people a lot of things to chew on and to think about, but also some really actionable, like, hey, here's what you can do. So I that's always my favorite kind of conversation. So thank you. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It's no fun when it's too pie in the sky. It makes how can we do this? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I really appreciate the practical balance there. So thank you so much for joining us. This has been awesome. Um, absolutely, my pleasure. This has been another episode of the Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast, joined by guest Paige Heinerman, who is the founder and chief strategist at Page Capacity Builders. I'm your host, Megan Speer, and we'll see you next time.