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Nonprofit Hub Radio
Whether starting a nonprofit or taking an existing cause to the next level, The Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast is about breaking down how nonprofits can grow. Each episode features an interview with a sector star with insight, stories, or ideas that can take your nonprofit from good to excellence. Join host Meghan Speer every week to make your good go further!
Nonprofit Hub Radio
A New Outlook For The New Year: Escaping the Busy Trap
As we kick off a new year, it’s time to reimagine what healthy, sustainable leadership can look like. In this refreshed conversation, author, consultant, and recovering fundraiser Kishshana Palmer joins Meghan Speer to explore why “busy” is the four-letter word holding so many nonprofit leaders back. Kishshana unpacks the personal wake-up call that led her to redefine success, why rest must be a non-negotiable, and how leaders can model wellbeing for their teams without losing credibility. From setting boundaries to choosing one meaningful wellness domino to tip the rest, this episode is an invitation to step out of the frantic pace and step into a year marked by clarity, capacity, and care—for yourself and your people.
Get free nonprofit professional development resources, connections to cause work peers, and more at https://nonprofithub.org
Nonprofits, are you ready to spend less time on paperwork and more time making an impact? Save big on Adobe Acrobat Pro, the leading PDF and e-signature tool built for mission-driven work. Apply for your discount now at Adobe.com slash nonprofits slash Acrobat. Welcome back to the Nonprofit Hub Podcast. I'm your host, Megan Speer, joined today by Kishana Palmer, who's the founder of Management and the author of Busy is a Four Letter Word. And oh man, I cannot wait to dig into just that whole premise. Oh, it's so good. Okay, welcome in, Kishana. So glad to have you here. So glad to be here. Oh my God. Okay, so before we dig into that, because man, I would love us all to embrace that concept. Uh, tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey that led you to this conversation today. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:For those folks who I have not had the pleasure of spending time with, I'm Koshana Palmer. And listen, friends, I am a recovering fundraiser. I feel like every time I try to get out, they pull me back. I have uh spent the last 25 years raising capital for organizations to help them grow. And probably about 10 years ago, I decided the only way that we're gonna have sustainable organizations if we have sustainable teams and if we have rested leaders, and if we have folks who understand that just because it is your baby or your passion or your commitment does not mean you get to let go of the commitment to yourself. Ooh, okay. And as somebody who is a high achiever and who got rewarded her entire life for being busy, imagine, Megan, that I had to get to a point where I had to say, enough is enough of this busy already, and really contemplate what would life be like for me and for other leaders if we tried to do less so that we had a shot at achieving more. And that has brought me to my life's work. So I help everyday leaders live well so that they can lead well. And my team, uh, we go into organizations, both small shops and large organizations, to help their teams ensure that they are healthy so that they can activate, amplify, and accelerate their mission.
SPEAKER_02:I love it. That's such a good word because I do think there's such a tendency in nonprofit, you know, we're so passionate about the thing, and the work that we're doing is so good that it leads to burnout. And we are seeing it at the nonprofit in the nonprofit level just at a, I mean, we're seeing a mass exodus of folks who are leaving the industry because they have just had enough of that pace and that frantic have to go, have to go, have to go all the time mentality. Oh, so I think this is a well-timed conversation for sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. Let's start with the idea of busy as a four-letter word. What made you write the book and what were some of your biggest takeaways from there?
SPEAKER_00:Oh my gosh, because I was a busybody. I wish I could say it was more complicated than that. But the reality was I was working myself to the bone. And I wasn't seeing the kind of results that I thought I should be seeing. And as I started to mature, you know, your body starts doing some different things as you season in the crock pot of life. Uh-huh. And I realized that I was operating at this pace that I did when I was in my 20s, but I wasn't getting the results that I thought I would get with more years of experience, with more time on task, with the level of expertise I was developing. And I just found myself doing more and more busy work. But it wasn't just at work, it was at home. So I'm a solo mom, and so I had to be the class mom, and I had to be the soccer mom, and I was the track mom and the swim mom. All of my caregivers can, I know, identify with that. Yeah. And then I'm in a leadership position in my organization, and I've got to make sure they see me as smart and sharp and strategic, and I have to model for my teams. You see how much pressure I'm putting on myself? And then I'm raising all of this capital, and so that means that I'm in part responsible for people's paychecks, right? And so I'm going and I'm going and I'm going and I'm exhausted and my body's starting to hurt and my back hurts, but I'm going and I'm going. And people are like, Yeah, oh my gosh, Christona, you can do everything. Oh, you're everywhere. And I started to feel like I don't want to get accolades for that. Yeah. I'm in pain, y'all. Like I'm traveling with a blood pressure cuff and a heating pad. This is not okay. No. And it was after the third time my back went out, and this third time I couldn't walk for a week. So you imagine you're a whole grown woman. Mom has to help you make it to the bathroom. Yeah. That was a humbling moment for me. And so I said, okay, Kashana, you gotta start doing things differently. You can't approach it from anger, you can't approach it from resentment. What does it look like to recalibrate? That's where busy came from. It was literally, I just started talking about it out loud. Yeah. And sort of just like socializing this idea among leaders and particularly women leaders, like, what does it look like for us to just say no to our kids, to our partners, to our volunteer activities? Just no. And folks are like, man, like up in arms. Did your heart go, did your stomach rumble? No. The answer is no and no explanation.
SPEAKER_02:I I have a friend who lives by the mantra that no is a full sentence. It doesn't need any sort of qualifiers on it. You can just say no. And that, but man, that's such a struggle. Because I think, and I think you're right. I think, especially as women, we are conditioned to constantly trying to have it all. Be it all, be the the be all and end all. And so it feels like I'm if I say no, oh my gosh, what if I don't get another opportunity? What if I what if this thing doesn't come around again? What if there's so many what ifs in that process? So how do how do we how do you get over that? I mean, because I legitimately have not yet gotten over it.
SPEAKER_00:So please I'm still working through it and I wrote the darn book. Okay, talk about that. So the reality is it is a work in process.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And one of the things that I have really had to sit with is we are not problems to be solved. And we're actually um not that important. And I just want folks to just kind of sit. We just not that important. And it was to me by my daughter. So I have a 19-year-old, so you know, she thinks that she's all the way grown. And I remember I was seeing all of these girlfriends and stuff who's their kids were doing their college announcements or whatever. And I did this big thing for her a couple years ago when she graduated. So I sent her a text message, Megan, and I'm like, hey, I was like, you see all these people copying my style, right? This is me to my kid, right? Send me back a text, mom. This has been going on for a really long time. And I was like, What? What are you talking about? I thought I was original. She was like, No, no, mom, you're special, but you're not original.
SPEAKER_02:Ooh, right? That's not the text anyone wants to get.
SPEAKER_00:From their kid? From anyone, from anyone. But it just I sat with that person and it was hilarious to me because I was like, yo, she just said you are special to me. But this is not original. So one of the things that I want us to really start to lean into is that yes, we are important to some people, but we're really not important to everyone, or as many people as you think you are. Yeah. And the person that we are most important to, we are ignoring, and that is ourselves. We're ignoring going for that walk to let off steam. We're ignoring getting our steps in, even though we know every time we do, we come back and our heart rates up and we feel good and our ignoring the pleasure of just making a nice meal because we're used to making these chicken nuggets and these plain spaghetti with butter and then eating off the leftovers off our kids. We're ignoring the fact that we love to garden because we're racing off to this activity or that. We're ignoring ourselves. And if we want to be able to start to plug back into what matters to us, we've got to start paying attention to ourselves. Oh, that's so good. It's one of those things, Megan, it's like it's like a duh, but also we're not delaying, right?
SPEAKER_02:And I oh, I feel that. So I during the pandemic, everyone else was gardening and making sourdough, and I have no interest in playing with dirt or anything in the kitchen. These are just not my skill sets. I mean, I live in like in the middle of downtown Pittsburgh. There I'm there's no right room for a garden anyway. But but I was going through some stuff at the time and ended up my pandemic project, ended up also being writing a book. And I felt that sentence that you just had like, I wrote the book on it and I'm still struggling with it. Because mine is around the idea of letting go of should is what it's called. And and freeing ourselves from all these things that people should do. So very parallel tracks. But man, I but wouldn't it be so great if we could just like write the book and then that made you the expert and you were done with it. Done with it. And we didn't we didn't have to worry about picking up all those expectations or picking picking up all that busy. Wouldn't that be so nice?
SPEAKER_00:Oh like that is not happening because you put the stuff on paper, and then you have other people who are lost what you're doing, and then they say to you, here's what you need to do. You need to follow what you should on page XYZ. Like that is what ends up happening. So it's one of those things where people expect me to do every single thing that I wrote about. When what I wrote, and I think how I wrote it, was this is a discovery. We're in this together. Don't trust anybody who says they have it all figured out.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Like that's where I'm coming from. I want you to know that I'm walking alongside you. And I've written this thing because when I had my moments of highest stress, it also introduced highest clarity. And I allowed myself not to be a problem solver in that moment, and I allowed myself to just be. And if you are a high achiever, being well, that's tough. Tough.
SPEAKER_02:Tough. Okay, so because I am I am also a high achiever, I have that type A like drive. Here's where I get stuck. And you, I'm gonna lean on you as the expert because I think that you've got some wisdom in this front. Here's where I get stuck. So I get to a place where I'm like, okay, I'm burnt out, I'm or I'm on the edge, I know where I'm headed, gotta change it. And all of a sudden, I make brand new to-do lists that do have meal prep every week, work out five days a week, get a walk-in every day. Like, and I just replace all of the busy from over here with all of the new busy, and I find myself equally as tired trying to keep up with all of these other busies. So I find the process a little overwhelming sometimes to think about, okay, I know something needs to change, but the process of change itself, I maybe I'm approaching it wrong, seems also overwhelming. So I just stay put, right? Yeah. Where help me out here?
SPEAKER_00:So you are not alone. You are not alone. I love that. You know, like you're not alone. So here's what I would say. So there is something that I came up with called a five-star wellness plan. And basically what I decided was at work, there are about five markers that show if your team members are engaged or not engaged, right? And they have to do with do I feel seen and heard? Um, is my work seen as valuable? Am I being compensated for the work I do? Do I have a best friend at work? Is there community? Essentially. So I took that idea and I said, huh, when I'm stressed out, what are the things that take a hit? Well, my physical wellness and well-being, my mental wellness and well-being, for me, my spiritual wellness and well-being, my financial wellness and well-being, and then my community. If you're like me, you might lock yourself in the house. You don't want to come out, right? Hide from your family. Fun isolation, absolutely. So you see how you named all those different things? Everything you named that you put on your new to-do list falls in one of those five areas, right? What I'm suggesting is do one thing. So I want you to look at your physical wellness and your well-being, your mental wellness and well-being, your spiritual wellness and well-being, financial, your community wealth will be, and just take one. Because one of those dominoes is gonna knock over all the dominoes. You need to see success or you need to put care and attention into one of those things the most.
SPEAKER_02:Interesting. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So for me, when I started really pouring into getting my finances right, all of a sudden I felt the courage to ask for help. Then I felt the courage to go for that walk. Then I didn't feel like I was in despair, so I started to take care of that emotional side, right? Then I started to think again. So I was in a season where that was the thing that was taking me out. And so when I decided I gotta lock in and get that well and get my mind around that wealth, all of a sudden it started to free me up and I started to feel that energy to start doing those other things. Now it didn't mean I let go of my health, but it meant that I wasn't killing myself to go work out three days a week. Okay, if I walked more 10,000 steps in one week, you better believe I bought a ice cream. I was gonna celebrate. Okay. But I was making sure that I wasn't overspending, that I was making sure I opened the mail. Okay, a lot of us have that problem with our money. That I was looking at what my daughter's upcoming expenses are and starting to let go, right? To say, hey, mommy's not paying for your toiletries and your hair and you this and you that. So you need to figure out how much that is, and we need to create a budget. And if you can't pay for it yourself, you can't have it, right? Like I had to pay attention to the area of my life that was causing me so much squeeze, yeah, that it was affecting everything else. So of the list of things that you gave yourself to do, I would go back to it and go, if I only did one thing on this list, which one would make me more excited to do the other stuff if I got it right, if I felt like, yeah, I did that. Yeah. And for each of us, in different seasons of our life, they're different things. Sure. So then you just give yourself the room to shift your priorities in the season of life you're in. So it's just like backing up from having to have this like success or failure, win or lose, in or out. And it allows you to live in a space that progress is the thing that you celebrate. And for those of us who are higher achievers, we know that is hard. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:My eye twitches a little bit. What are you saying?
SPEAKER_01:Like, oh same, same, same.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. My eye still twitches like it. But I know that when I do it, and I have to man, listen, I have to work hard at that sometimes, okay? That means I have to go outside and talk to myself. That means I have to drive sometimes my car and listen to my favorite track for a good 15, 20 minutes of driving aimlessly to get my brain to accept that it's okay to get this small win and not go negate it by saying, Well, I didn't do these 97 other things.
SPEAKER_02:If you want to spend less time on paperwork and more time making an impact, we have the solution for you. With Adobe Acrobat Pro, you can streamline reports, speed up contracts with e-signatures, and create polished PDFs that inspire donors and engage volunteers. Work smarter with cloud access, top-tier security, and powerful editing tools designed for teams on a mission. And with special nonprofit pricing, it's efficiency you can afford. Apply for your discount now at Adobe.com slash nonprofits slash acrobat. You mentioned there's there's five pieces of employee engagement and and retention that matters on that side. But how do we as leaders make sure that our folks see that's what we're working on, right? Because my my fear would be if I start to like maybe I'm only working 45 hours a week, right? Or maybe I'm pulling back, maybe I am saying no to some things or not as engaged. I my fear would be that my team's gonna start to think I'm a slacker or that I am disconnected or that I'm losing my edge, whatever the case may be. And so I feel like the hustle gets modeled so much easier. How do we bring our whole team into that conversation so that they're staying healthy too and understand what's being modeled for them?
SPEAKER_00:So one of the ways I made that transition is I made personal goals a part of our um professional development. Oh, I like that. So I modeled for my team what I want to see. So I would say, Yo, I don't know if I mean remember when I gained like a lot of weight. And to me, when you gain a lot of weight, that means your weight is hiding for you, it's carrying you, right? So you don't really lose weight, you release it. And so I was in this place where I was breathing and I wasn't talking about it, and we were busier than ever. And so everybody's working late. And I came on to a Zoom call one morning and I said, Y'all, why didn't anybody tell me I look crazy? Everybody's eyes popped open. I said, Y'all had me on here looking like the Pillsbury Dough girl, and nobody said a word. Do you not care about me? Of course, Rashana, we care about you, but we thought you were going through a lot of stuff and we never right. And I said, I need y'all to hold me accountable to take care of myself. Because I said, I know if I'm eating a pint of ice cream every day that somebody is over, somebody's over there eating them chips and somebody's doing something, and that means we're getting salt and then we're not getting enough rest. And then like I was able to talk through what I was experiencing and not in a self-deprecating way as much in a I am a human and not a robot.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, but the humility to exit to admit that we're human is is sometimes counterintuitive to the leadership mindset. I feel like that's a real that's a hard struggle for a lot of folks.
SPEAKER_00:Say it out loud. Name the thing. The probability is high, each team is noticing anyway, friends. Yeah. Okay. They already can see it. So if you are a sandwich generation, so you're taking care of a parent as a caregiver, you might have caregiving for young ones, right? For example, that means you're gonna be at doctor's visits, hospital visits, last-minute call-outs. You might, your mind might be on something else because somebody has to have treatment. You don't have to give your whole team the whole skinny, right? On the details, but you better let these folks know what is happening in your life and give your team room to support you because they know. And once they see that you're vulnerable enough to do that, then they might say, Hey, here's what I'm navigating. And somebody's gonna say, Let me help you with that. All of a sudden, you start seeing people's strengths rise in the places that people are struggling, getting managed by somebody else on the team. But it doesn't happen if you are not the first person, and I'm not talking about full vulnerability, okay? Oh gosh, yeah, Holly, no, things are so hard. No, no, no, friends. Your team can see right through you. Right. So when I name that I put personal goals in our professional development, for example, I want to know who wants to travel this year. I want to know who's starting a new hobby, I want to know what creative pursuit you have outside of work. You can't work on management's team if you don't have a personal pursuit. That's that is in our interview process because you have a founder who is a workaholic and a recovery workaholic at that. So I have to create ways to ensure that my team does not follow suit.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And that was one of the ways, right? Like you've got to take an interest in your life, and that is a part of our goals. How did you do that this year? How will we know you're successful? One of our markets is did you take your time off?
SPEAKER_02:Ooh. Ooh, and that's I mean, the statistics honestly for Americans who leave vacation and PTO days on the table is ridiculously high.
SPEAKER_00:Ridiculously high. But if you're a nonprofit leader, you're a CEO, and let's say we're talking about our small, our small to mid-sized shops, right, where you can make those decisions pretty quickly. What does it look like? You have a staff of 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 people up to 100 people. What does it look like to just have everybody put the days that matter to them and their personal lives on a calendar and to see that mapped? Then put the federal holidays that we still observe on the hollow on the calendar. How many working days does that map? Then you actually see how many working days as an organization that you actually really have. Then you design to capacity. What's gonna happen is you're gonna have to start making some trade-offs on what's actually important but not urgent, what's actually urgent but not important, what's neither urgent nor important. Okay, and therefore, what does that reveal? What's busy work? And you start to get clear on what matters to accelerate, to amplify your mission. And that to me is the responsibility of that leader. And friends, it's a gift, it's a little bit of squeeze for a lifetime of ease. And I have done it with organizations are coming as a consultant to help folks do this over and over again. They all look at me crazy and roll their eyes, like Sean, I'm not gonna happen. And then a year later, they're like, our entire life has changed because it works.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Interesting. Okay, so when you go into an organization like that as a consultant, I'm curious. What's the because I so I've I've done some fundraising consulting myself. I feel like I could have an answer to this. What's the one thing that you see that is true about every organization? Because let's be honest, we all like to think we're super unique, right? And the the problems we face could not possibly be faced, have never been faced by any other organization because we are a special little duckling. We're so different, tiny little unicorns, each and every one of us, right? Yeah, it's just not real. Again, you're not all you're not all that special.
SPEAKER_00:You're not that, I mean, you're not original. Yeah, you are special. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:So, what's the one that you see when it comes to this, especially around like leadership and culture?
SPEAKER_00:That we do not seem to be able to accept in real time that we're in the business of relationships, which is why you hear me talk about amplifying, activating, and accelerating our mission. That is people powered. So if we can accept the premise that we are in the business of people and the business of relationships, then we start to look at maybe our fundraising challenges a different way. Probability is high as a people challenge that we're having and not a fun and not a cash problem, right? Because money's just a tool. If we're having an attrition problem, that is definitely a people problem. If we're having a growth challenge, also related to people, it might be related to systems, but also people. And so I think the thing that is the common throughput, and we do a lot of crisis management and change management. Organizations are looking to grow, they're at a point of inflection, um, they've hit a wall, etc. Is have you looked at your people? Do the people do they do you know they exist? Yeah, and that might seem like super simple, and yet it is the thing that my clients time and time again will run for the hills. And I have to go run and catch them. Because once we are able to recenter the plot and focus on the humans that make our organization thrive, all of a sudden, you are more apt to do the hard things. You are more apt to make the decisions that really will help the organization shift, grow, right? Have deeper or wider impact depending on where you are in your journey. These are the things that we need to do. So that's the thing I see all the time.
SPEAKER_02:And and then, right? Because it's easy to identify the problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I feel like especially as consultants, sometimes we get that like we can see the broader, bigger picture. Is that also then the thing that you think people resist the most on to change? Oh, yeah. I feel like for me, it's very easy for me to identify these issues. And the the ones that I see that are like maybe a little unique or just those ones they embrace very quickly. But the big picture, easy, like if you could just nail this one thing, everything would be different. Those are the ones where I get the most pushback every time.
SPEAKER_00:Because they don't want to change, they like the idea of doing a new thing.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And let's face it, some of us just like to complain. And we're very comfortable in our complaining pond. And that's where we just want to swim and we like to complain. And that a lot of times has to do with your family of origin, how you grew up. Um, and so when we do our work, particularly when we're doing large organizational change work, I get all in people business. Okay. I want to know if your first family, if your oldest daughter or son, your birth order, if your parents got divorced, where part of the world you grew up in. Why? Because those things are the riptides, the undercurrents of whether your organization is going to get pulled over and you didn't even see it coming. And so if we address the humanness of how people live and work, then we can focus on how do we then you leverage what we know and understand to build capacity for what we need to do to be able to accomplish missing. I'm also the oldest daughter.
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
unknown:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I love the oldest daughter. So you can tell, right? I'm like, you're gonna do this work. You're gonna do this.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, that's yeah, that is me, I will admit. And I just wonder, out of I would love to see see the statistics. Like how many of the folks who are running these organizations who are dealing with this same problem, how many of them are the oldest daughters? Yes, probably a lot. I would guess a lot. A lot. Because we are admittedly, we are a different breed. Yep.
SPEAKER_00:Oh we could do a whole episode just on be like, oh my god, let us talk about it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you can talk about birth order all you want and and say what you want, but that oldest daughter.
SPEAKER_00:That oldest daughter is a special kind of human. Okay, yeah, that's just different. And we're the ones who I always say, if you are an executive and you do not have a therapist that you are seeing on a monthly basis, Macis, when people come to coach with me, that is one of the questions that I ask. And if I get into our assessments and I'm like, uh, friend, you need about 16 sessions on somebody's couch. That is going to be a part of your leadership plan. Yeah. Use this good health insurance and figure it out because we need that support. And I think what leaders can model is that it's okay to be supported. It is okay to be able to do that. Say that again to be supported.
SPEAKER_02:Oof.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. It's okay to be.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah, that's that's a hard one.
SPEAKER_00:I heard somebody say, Meganette, you know, oh, Beyonce has the same 24 hours in a date as everybody else. No, she doesn't. You know why? Because she's supported. Chef, trainer, all pair for the children, three personal assistants, a partridge and a pear tree. Okay. She is humans whose job it is to facilitate her life. Yes. And although we may not have the luxury of having Bell's number of professionals as resources to help us, we can access resources to be able to help us to operate at that optimal level. And that's what I want for everybody. And that is what Enpartment Book is about.
SPEAKER_02:I love that so much. So, one question before we kind of move to wrap up. So, when we talk about this idea of making maybe some smaller steps and modeling that, if you could tell people like what's the one where they should start? Because even to me, thinking through like here's the five, right? You could get any of these five. Even that to me, I can I maybe not in this moment, but there have definitely been times in my life where having to make that decision feels super overwhelming. Yep. Is there one that you see consistently where like if you could just start here, what would that suggestion look like today?
SPEAKER_00:So I just want to give everybody the hard news. The answer is no. The thing that you must do is stop. And so for me, you see, yep, yep. Go ahead and breathe. Yep. I get outside that door, I put my feet in that dirt, and you know, I'm city girl, so I don't really like that, okay? But I put my I ground myself. You see, I'm I'm holding on to myself because even just telling you that makes my whole heart start to flood them. I'm racing, okay? And you have to allow your body to feel what you need to do first. Your body is telling you exactly which move you need to make, and in order for you to be able to hear it, you've got to stop 10 minutes. I'm not talking about 30 days, y'all, and 30 nights. Yeah, and you've got to ask yourself, what do I need to do next? Hold on to yourself, breathe deeply, and just wait. Wait because what bubbles up that anxiety is gonna start to tell you in a About three, four minutes. And then you get to sit with that. That's why I said about 10 minutes. And then you go, okay, what's in my control around that thing? What's out of my control? And you start to just take your time and go through it one at a time. But I want folks to stop and give themselves just a few minutes to allow your body to tell you where you need to focus. And y'all, I'm not somebody's healer. Okay, let me tell you right now, okay? I do come from a culture where homeopathic medicine and holistic ways to approach things are a big part of what we do, but I ignored it too for a long time. And I'm starting to learn that if we start to really focus on coming back to ourselves, pay attention to yourself, that's gonna affect your leadership. Period. Almost overnight. Check me on it. Almost overnight. Oh good. And if folks need some tools, start on page 101 of my book where I give you my cheesecake methodology. Okay. A little close to it before you. A little teaser there. A little teaser to take that first step if you need some more help.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. So if somebody is is like, yes, I need the book, or wow, this is really interesting. I'd love to learn more about Kishana and her work and and maybe have her come in. How do we find you? How do we connect with you? Where do we find the book? What's the best way to learn all the things about you?
SPEAKER_00:Well, busy is a four-letter word, it's available to all major booksellers. So the Barnes and Noble, Goodreads, Amazon, and your favorite independent booksellers. Um, I'm probably the only Kishana Palmer that you will ever know in the world. And so um you can reach me at Kishana Palmer.com forward slash book if you want to look at my book, or just go to my website. And I'm also Koshana Palmer on all socials. And I am the only one. Okay. If you see a page that doesn't look like I did it, I probably didn't do it. Okay, somebody is trying to spoof me. Um, but I am easy to reach. My team stands at the ready to have conversations, and I would love, love, love to talk to more folks about how to live well so that they can lead well. I promise you that if you commit to yourself that you can do that work, okay? And your life will change.
SPEAKER_02:I love it. So as we wrap up, the question that I've been asking everybody in this season um is if you could give one piece of advice or encouragement or wisdom to nonprofit leaders right now. Obviously, it's been a tough year for a lot of folks. Yes, it has. It is a tough season. So, in that, if you could give one piece of wisdom or encouragement, what would that be as we close out today?
SPEAKER_00:Ooh, recenter the plot, friends. Re-center the plot, focus in. Take care of yourself, put good things in your body, make sure you're getting the proper nutrients you need, sweat, the basics. Because in order for you to navigate things you don't have in your control, whether people continue to give, if funders decide last minute to change their direction in funding, if team members decide to get out of the sector altogether and leave your organization, if something happens in your community and you have to rally in a way you've never had before, you can't do that if you are sick. And so if I had one piece of advice, take care of yourself, get sleep, get good food, get rest. And it doesn't mean rest just means pausing, slowing down a little bit, taking time for yourself, putting your face in the sun so that you have the energy to continue to fight the good fight.
SPEAKER_02:So good. That is an excellent word. Thank you. Awesome. Kashana, there were so many nuggets of wisdom in this. Normally we try and pull out like two or three to do video clips. I don't know what we're gonna pull because I just need to play the whole thing for everybody. Um but thank you. Really, really appreciate all of your wisdom and insights and appreciate you taking the time today.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. And listen, friends, y'all better be well out there, okay? We are counting on you. So take care of yourself.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. Again, my guest has been Kashana Palmer, who's the founder of management and the author of Busy is a four-letter word. Go find this book. I'm telling you right now, go do it. Just so much good insight there. Love, love to see it. This has been another episode of the Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast. I'm your host, Megan Spear, and we'll see you next time.