Nonprofit Hub Radio
Whether starting a nonprofit or taking an existing cause to the next level, The Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast is about breaking down how nonprofits can grow. Each episode features an interview with a sector star with insight, stories, or ideas that can take your nonprofit from good to excellence. Join host Meghan Speer every week to make your good go further!
Nonprofit Hub Radio
From Stagnant To Strategic: Rebooting Nonprofit Boards
Governance can propel a mission forward or quietly stall it, and the difference often comes down to clarity, courage, and the right people in the right roles. We sit down with strategist and former executive director Eddrick Martin to unpack how boards become true force multipliers instead of rubber-stamp committees. From aligning with your board chair to recruiting beyond your first-degree network, this conversation delivers a practical blueprint for nonprofit leaders ready to modernize their governance and build momentum.
If you’re ready to turn governance into a strategic advantage, this episode offers clear steps you can apply at your next board meeting. Subscribe, share with your board, and leave a review with your top governance challenge—we’ll feature solutions in a future show.
Get free nonprofit professional development resources, connections to cause work peers, and more at https://nonprofithub.org
Welcome back to the Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast. I'm your host, Megan Speer, joined today by Edric Martin, who's the CEO and lead strategist at Elevated Momentum. If you joined us at Coscamp back in November, you would have maybe seen Edric's session. And that's kind of a little bit what we're going to dive into today. Uh, talking about board development, the make or break for every organization, I would say. So, Edric, fresh off Coscamp, welcome and glad to have you here.
SPEAKER_02:You're welcome. Uh thank you, uh, Megan. I'm happy to be here. Thanks for asking us to join.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. So tell us a little bit about yourself and kind of the the road that led you to the conversation here today.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so uh it's quite interesting. So, you know, my my background is in uh the nonprofit space. So 20 plus years, you know, working in the nonprofit space and uh as an executive leader. So, you know, I've I've worked as an executive director, worked as a program director, a program coordinator, served as a board member, served as a board president. And so having all of those experiences and seeing it from the board seat, knowing what I wanted out of my board members when I was an executive director, an executive leader, it helped me be a better board member. And then sometimes, you know, that put a little bit of um additional, not motivation, but additional awareness and and slightly stressor, right? Because I knew what I'm what I wanted from my board members as executive director, but as a board member, it's like, okay, am I am I meeting that? And having to, you know, I've haven't had there were times I didn't have great boards, had to figure it out. Um, and then um, you know, and then we we did figure it out, or did some things better and made some missteps and then improved on it. But I say all that to say, you know, moving into this iteration, you know, as a as an executive leader in the nonprofit space, and then going into the private sector to help nonprofit organizations, that's really really, really have a passion to help organizations grow, thrive, and strive. And that can't be done without looking at their organizational development. A big part of that is are their boards. And so that topic today just really helps us.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. So I um I use the phrase at the top of the show that boards can be make or break, right? Because I have seen some incredible organizations go under and fail because uh because of a lack of support from the board or because of infighting on the board. And there are countless ways that I have seen that play out. Um, but I'm interested, I think, to have both sides of the conversation, right? Because you've sat on a board and on multiple boards and you have been the executive director. So I'm as a way to start, I want to kind of get your answer on both sides, which is as the board member, what do you wish executive directors would know? And as the executive director, what do you wish board members would know? Right. What's the number one, maybe like, oh, if we could just nail down these things, that would be a great place to kind of level set everybody and get us on the same page.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So as a I'll start from the board seat.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:As a board member, what I want executive directors to know is that I'm well intentioned. And that with me being well-intentioned, it takes on your part as the executive director intentionality to make sure I'm utilized in the best ways possible, and there's transparency about your expectations for me. You know, I want to and I want to be of some type of impact for the most part. But that's that's that's most most board members how they that we've come across anecdotally, how they feel. And and my and my experience.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So where should that process start, that transparency start? Right? Because I feel like everybody comes onto the board and they're they have their own expectations of what they're gonna be doing and what that happens. So is there a better way to kind of set that up front?
SPEAKER_02:You know, it that's a very nuanced question. Um yes, there is. It starts in the perfect world. Um, you'd have the situation where you have a sitting executive director and they're getting ready to launch and bring their board on, and now they set all these steps and processes and principles and practices, put those in place, and then it'll be a fine oil machine from day one. That's not that's not reality.
SPEAKER_00:There's very few perfect worlds out there.
SPEAKER_02:There's very few perfect, very few perfect worlds. So, in the in the absence of that, the the foundation of that board, that executive leader and that board chair, board president relationship, I say it starts there with them being on the same page and laying out what the found foundational principles of that organization's board will be. And and that's gotta be based on the DNA of the organization. What strategic initiatives are coming up? Um, what what's the what strategic initiatives are in the immediacy are we trying to are we trying to um deliver and act on and act upon for the community or whatever our service is. And but being on the same page is really important because as a there's a vast difference between the executive between the staff seat trying to influence volunteers that are your bosses, and uh a volunteer leader influencing their peers. And so that's why that's a that's probably one of the biggest foundational pieces that that there can be.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so on the flip side, as the executive director, what do you wish that your board would would understand and know?
SPEAKER_02:That it's not my job alone. That it's not my from from the executive, it was was from the executive director's seat, right? Yeah, that it's not my job alone. So like I want you to understand, uh, I want the board members to understand that that the board is the lifeblood of the organization. The staff may be the skeletal support, but the board, they're the lifeblood. And so what that means is it's not my job alone to hold up the organization. And the reason we need boards outside of the tax designation and mandate and all that stuff is so we can spread the spread our footprint to those that need it. And we can only do that by uh bringing folks in that can be a resource to us willingly, no hostages, right? Willing willing resources and connecting us to resources and and making sure that that I don't just want you to show up for meaning and rubber stamp things. There are executive directors that want that, but we we prefer impact. We prefer we prefer meaningful engagement, meaningful action, and it's not my job alone, and I understand that it's not your job alone. So that's what I would that's what I want the boards to understand from the executive leadership.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's great. So I'm curious. Um I will give you an example of an organization that I observed. Right. I was coming in as a consultant, so I'm working with the board and with the executive director and with the whole team, right? Which is also which is just a really interesting fly on the wall kind of place to be sometimes because you do get to see a wide variety of personalities and dynamics at play.
SPEAKER_02:Um always do. It's always interesting.
SPEAKER_00:So good. But one of the things that I thought was really interesting, and I would love to see Kenir take, because I'm sure that there are a lot of organizations that are in this same boat. There were seven people on the board.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:All seven of them had been on the board for multiple years. So not a lot of new blood, not a lot of new ideas. And very much the executive director seemed to was very much trying to drive some growth, some some moving forward, some change, some exciting, what if we do this? Um and the board was very stuck in a well, that's this is how we've always done it. Right. This is always done it. Let's just keep it there. And so in that kind of a dynamic, whether and it could be the board that's trying to drive change and the staff and the executive directors who are going, no, no, no, this is how we do it. When you have those kind of clashes, I'd love to get your insight on how you both ex like as an executive director, how do you help navigate that? On the board, how do we make sure that we're not getting stagnant like that? Right? When we or and it doesn't even have to be necessarily around change, but when there is a conflict between the two, let's talk about that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And how do we have how do we handle it?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, some of so some of it's gonna be chicken and egg, right?
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Um, I say that from the standpoint of, so I'm gonna assume that the board leadership is part of this this dynamic, and they're not on the same page. This is how it's always been. The you know, what what I always encourage and we always encourage is in those situations, you'll hear us talk about board development as everyone's job and responsibility, and you gotta get, and the board has to have a heavy hand in recruiting new board members and stuff. In that situation, we always we always encourage the executive leader, always encourage the executive leader to start the process of recruiting their folks. And and if you get enough folks with the similar vision to you as the executive leader, then a couple of things will either happen. You'll have some of the more senior folks roll off. They'll they'll they'll they'll take a they'll look at the room and hear what's going on. If you have folks talking about change and asking critical questions about why we're doing it this way and stuff, when you've got the other folks saying, Well, we've always done it this way, and they can't answer why.
SPEAKER_00:Sure.
SPEAKER_02:Beyond the, well, it's been good enough, then that starts to change the dynamic and the conversation of those board meetings. So that supersedes letting the board and or waiting for the board to recruit their folks on. Getting like-minded folks that can adopt your vision as an executive leader. Um, the other piece is fostering as executive leader some type of way, fostering an exercise of a light self-assessment. Because in that dynamic, sometimes it's hard to get the board to say, well, we don't need a board evaluation. We're good enough. But a light strategic assessment of the direction of the organization is how we would how I would encourage it. But within that, critical questions How long have we been doing A, B, and C? How well has that been? Um and I would score it, right? And then if they're getting high marks, that's well, how do we know? And then is are we the best that we can be? If not, what will it take to be the best that we can be? What does that mean? And those critical questions at the minimum will foster some type of dialogue. And then if everything comes back hunky-dory and everything's great, then you have your answer as an executive leader. That may not be the right place for you because that means change is gonna be hard and you're not gonna be able to influence change when those critical conversations and transparency or or candidness isn't coming to light. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. So I'm curious, then I don't I don't want to sound like I'm playing devil's advocate, right? But uh I would think the danger on the flip side, if we as the executive director, if I fill the board with people who are just gonna yes whatever I propose, right, then we're not it that then we're maybe not in the best place either. So there it feels to me like what we're saying is there has to be a balance.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but so that's a great point. Um, but so the part of that is when we talk about getting folks on with your vision, uh, executive leaders, what a part that goes along with that, when if I'm bringing folks on, I still want to bring folks on that's gonna hold me accountable as an executive leader. So what that means is we need to update our bylaws. We need to review them and update them. We need to, if we don't have a board governance handbook, we need to have a board governance handbook that tells me, tells us, tells the executive leader what what what my sandbox is and how big it is, and tells the board what their sandbox is and how big it is and how we work together. What's the oversight that the board is responsible for me on uh of, you know, and to what degree? What are the various thresholds? And also, so what's the review process for me as an executive leader? What's the compensation committee? Is there compensation committee? What's that process? What are the metrics that I'm gonna be evaluated on as an executive leader? And then on the flip side, putting in those in the governance handbook, we're gonna do a performance evaluation on the board at least every two years, if not annually. We're gonna check certain boxes and make sure meeting attendance is at certain levels. We're gonna put folks into, we're gonna adopt and put folks into classes and and have a process of fidelity where we're following it. And you know, whether I whether our board members are on there for 12 years, there's still a process where they're being renewed and in terms and classes and stuff. So even though I'm bringing folks on that share my vision, that's part of what my vision is. So we can foster the change and evolution and keep, you know, setting organization up for success and the board, for success and the board.
SPEAKER_00:That's so good. I could see though, if I'm if I think about like someone who's listening to this podcast as an executive director, right? Sitting in my car going, yeah, that all sounds lovely. Where do I even start to find those people? So when we talk about going out to recruit, whether that is a board member, because maybe I I could very easily see how an executive director sends this podcast to their board to listen to so that we can start the dialogue. Um, but when we talk about recruiting new folks and and bringing folks in to be on the board, talk to me from your perspective, because I'm sure you've seen it all. How do we go about even finding those folks and realizing what, like, what skill sets should we be looking for? What personality types are we looking for? What are we where do we even start to go find the people that we need to make sure that we're driving an organization forward?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So that's a multi-tiered answer. Um, I always start with your own network. And and there's gonna be a lot of executive leaders like that will say, I've exhausted my network.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You know, I I've gone through my phone and my contacts. And but have you spiderwebbed their network? Is what I would say. You know, the the the if you watch those um crime shows and they've got the the the thing in the middle, the yes, with all the stream coming off of it, right? So and LinkedIn is a is a great piece of that. Uh you can do it anecdotally. So, all right, who do I know? So, all right, who do I know? Uh I I know Edric, but I've exhausted him. But who do I know knows Edric? Or who do I know that Edric knows, that I'm not necessarily connected to, and start doing the spider web, then LinkedIn, not stalking LinkedIn, but just perusing their LinkedIn connections and stuff like that. And and then this person begets that person, and you're doing the spiderweb of your center of influence and stuff. Vendors that might support the organization, or donors that might support the organization, what's their circle of influence? Can you spider web them? Can you spider web, you know, if you're your paper goods folks, if you get paper goods delivered and have a vendor or something as a loose example, getting those folks on the board. The second piece of that would be is finding folks. What we're seeing more and more is organizations doing a call to action, an open public call for board prospects and having an open informational meeting. Here's our organization. Uh, come learn about us, and here's what it would mean to be a board member. And this is a meeting that volunteers would be at, their board members would be at. So, one, to minimize staff speak. Um, two, so if I'm a prospect and well-intentioned prospect, and I know of the organization, then I'm coming to learn what it would mean. What would my engagement or involvement mean? To what degree do I have to serve? What does that look like? All of those good things. But there's a vetting process that goes along with that. Um, still, you know, we I would encourage folks to you still fill out, make them fill out a board commitment form, right? And with all the triggers of expectations in there. But so doing an open call and sending out specific invites, but based on the spider web that we've that we've done, that spider web exercise. So looking at your board members' connections, because they may not be realize that they haven't exhausted their networks. But and when we talk about networks, we always think in terms of, well, who do I know that I'm close to? And that's not that's exactly that's not what that means.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:It's who who have crossed paths with, who I've had introductions with, who have I had a conversation with at some point in time, and that know of me, that might be willing to have a conversation and learn more about the organization. And I can steer and shepherd them to what, as an executive leader, what my vision is.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I'm curious your opinion, because I've heard I've heard two schools of thought.
SPEAKER_01:Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00:And I'm curious which one, you know, maybe both of them are trash. I don't know. What you're you can certainly answer. But I've heard one school of thought that says you recruit for skills. We go look for somebody who's got a finance background, we look for someone who's got a legal background, we look for someone who's got maybe a marketing background, and we fill the board with the skills that we need that we know are gonna come in handy. Or we s we fill the board with um people who are just super passionate about the cause. I want the people who are top donors, I want the people who are top volunteers, maybe parents who've been affected by whatever the thing is, you know, the the people who have received services, whatever the case may be. But so it's there's uh a call for like a skills based board and one that is a passion based board. And I'm curious if you like both. Like neither, what's your where do you land on those schools I or if you had to pick one, I guess maybe is the better question.
SPEAKER_02:If if I had to pick one, um you may not like this answer, but this is this is the honest answer or thoughtful answer, is I think it depends on what your organization is and which set is gonna advance the organization in the immediacy and potentially into the the long term. What do I need something right now or do I need something in the next for the next two years for our strategic initiatives to be impacted? And I prefer in generally I'll default to the purpose, passion-driven folks, okay because that brings energy. And then we can educate them on some of the other things, but that doesn't mean the the other skill-based stuff isn't important, especially for your working boards.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, you know, you you you're gonna your working boards, you might need someone in that has a skill set in marketing. You know, you you might need someone, you don't have an a small independent nonprofit that's founded five years ago, may not have a CFO. Sure. And and may need an a board member that has stepped up to put their eyes on the financials, and that's their role as a board member. So in those cases, that's what's important to the organization to make sure that it's operating and uh with some um momentum and and fidelity. But you have to assess that. I default to the other piece because you can there's there's ways to get around the skills-based stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Sure.
SPEAKER_02:There are ways, but if you have folks that are passionate, energetic, it's gonna drive change or or drive initiatives, then that will that's always the preference for for us.
SPEAKER_00:And is there a kind of a benchmark timeline in that then? Right? Where like starting off, we might want more of a skills-based because we're smaller and we don't have in-house legal counsel or a full-time marketing person, right? Where skills-based makes more sense for a working board to be a working board.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And then at this, either is it, I don't know if it's years or budget or you know, whatever, where it makes more of more sense to transition away from a working board to a more oversight. What does that timeline generally look like?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I don't know that there's a a one specific answer of when to move from a skills-based or working board to a policy board.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Policy-based board. Um, I think it just depends on the DNA of your organization and where the organization is. And uh there's different every organization has a different journey and and time frame. And you know, once I say this all the time in our in our workshops and our trainings, once you've seen one nonprofit, you've seen one nonprofit because there's different stages and phases that they all go through. I would what I would do is I would encourage organizations probably after the a young organization, um after the three-year mark, I would encourage them to do an organizational assessment, something called the uh the CCAT. There's different versions of organizational assessments and and tools out there, but that's just one that I'm aware of that we that we that we work with folks on. And so I would do some type of organization, formal organizational assessment that's not cost prohibitive. There's some free services out there, but some type of organizational assessment to put you into what is your life cycle stage of your organization. And then that will help to foster an idea of what path you need to move in with your board.
SPEAKER_00:So we've talked a little bit about like the board as a whole and from the executive director point, but I want to uh kind of wrap here on the board chair themselves, right? Because they're kind of the person sitting in the middle who's playing. Um I'm curious your thoughts on is there one specific thing as a board chair that you is like the top responsibility you should be taking seriously, right? Because you kind of have to play both sides a little bit, right? Uh so I'm curious, like from your perspective, is there or is there a trait that you see in board chairs that are like, that's it. This is what we gotta do, this is what we're looking for and what to go for, or a top responsibility for them. Speak to that a little bit.
SPEAKER_02:I I would say two things. One is as a board chair, one of the top things that they need to be able to do is they need to have true discernment or self-reflection on if they have the ability throughout their career, their experiences, how well do they influence their peers? Are they seen as a leader amongst their peers in their other settings?
SPEAKER_00:Interesting. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Um and and because that's what you were called to do in the nonprofit space, you are called should be to lead your other volunteers on behalf of the organization to make sure that it is in a sustainable state and will be in good standing. Um and the second piece of that is do you have the ability to make tough decisions and not be that may cause folks to not like you? Not that you're seeking to not be liked, sure, but but do you do you have the ability to ask um Lisa as a as a false name um to say, Lisa, look, we know you have some good intentions, but you just haven't been able to serve in the capacity that we that we need you to. So it we think it's time for you to go. And having those tough, honest conversations, or hey Lisa, look, or Mike, look, we appreciate your feedback and your candor during the board meetings, but we need you to have a little bit more structure when you're delivering your feedback and and awareness and how it's being done because it's taking us off a path. And you don't have to, we don't all have to vote the same, but there needs to be a structure and a manner in which we're doing it in a way that is fostering goodwill.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You know, so the I would say those are uh those those two things. And then lastly is uh making sure that our board is not rubber stamping the executive rector, but we're supporting the executive rector. And support means keeping them from making bad decisions or ill-informed decisions and asking critical questions and being supportive, uh however we can, asking them how we can be supportive. Yeah, that's the one I gave you three.
SPEAKER_00:No, it's uh listen, I'll always take more. That's great. Um, so I want to give some context too. So a lot of this, a lot of your expertise obviously comes from your consulting practice. So tell us a little bit about elevated momentum and the kind of work that you all do with nonprofits.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so we so elevated momentum. So we're a strategies consulting firm. We we like to say we we we partner with purpose-driven organizations um and to help drive uh growth and sustainable cultures. And that so that means a bunch of different things, right? And it doesn't necessarily have to be a nonprofit organization, but we have a heavy focus, and that's where my passion is since I'm uh uh born of of the nonprofit space as uh previous experiences with the YMCA and leading leading YMCA uh YMCAs and working with them and and growing staff and processes and boards. So, but yeah, so we we do everything from strategic planning. Uh, we'll do leadership and team alignment for organizations, and that's key leaders, that's middle management, that's frontline folks. Uh we'll help folks with their strategic initiatives and strategy labs. You may not have a you may not be in a place to where you can do a strategic plan, uh two, three-year strategic plan, but you can do, you can have some strategic planning or some strategic initiatives, operational initiatives for the in the immediacy or one or two years, stuff like that. Um and then we also do a lot of board work, a lot of board enhancement work, board education, board training to help organizations be on the be better on the right, on the right path, right? And to make sure they have the tools and resources, they're asking the the right questions of their executive leaders, and then they just know what what does governance mean? What does that look like? What is my role as a board? What should we be thinking about? And then we also do in the nonprofit space, we'll do nonprofit uh executive coaching, operations management coaching for executive directors and CEOs. So help guide them. Maybe you should be thinking serve as a sounding board and also a resource, a strategic resource about what you should be thinking about. Maybe you should try this with your boards. Have you thought about this strategy? Yeah, and then doing some professional development with them.
SPEAKER_00:So that's great. And if somebody wanted to learn more about that or connect with you, what's the best way to do that?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, they can email us, reach out and email us at uh either either info at elevatedmomentum.com or emartin at elevatedmomentum.com. And there's also our our our website, elevatedmomentum.com, where they can they can reach out through there as well.
SPEAKER_00:I love it. Uh Edric, this has been so good. I I know board can be a challenge for a lot of folks. So I'm hoping that this episode serves to kind of at least open a dialogue between maybe the board chair and the executive director, or the board and the executive director, so that we can start 2026 off with a solid footing with our boards.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. It's a very nuanced thing. So it looks perfect on paper, but it's we know that's not the reality.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So hopefully this opens the door to some really good conversations. Uh as we wrap up, the question that I've been kind of asking everyone in this season, uh, if you could give one piece of wisdom or encouragement to nonprofit leaders, especially as we kind of wrap one year and head into another one, what would that be? Uh what would be your your bit of wisdom or encouragement?
SPEAKER_02:So uh the wisdom and encouragement is to understand that we usually get through it in the nonprofit space. We usually get through it. Um in the election years and election cycles in the first years of presidencies. Anecdotally, is my experience as I peers, myself, organizations, we always are super nervous and antsy, and everything is tends to be a little doom and gloom when there's that much change. Now, this is a ton of change real fast all at once, but it's always it's always seemed to have leveled out. And so I would say that just remember, go back and think about other times when there was a lot of uncertainty, and how did it level out, and when did you start to see it level out? And don't overstress yourself. We're passionate about organizations, so it's only natural to be stressed and not quite panic. I'm not gonna use I don't want to use panic as the right word, but maybe overinflate the stressors and of what it is, because we're concerned about the viability of the organization. But it'll it will pass because it always it always has, for the most part. And so just go back, think about that, look at times in your career as executive leaders to where uh there was a lot of uncertainty. And then when did that uncertainty kind of shift, you know, especially within the political climate?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Oh, it's such a good word. Uh Edric, thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking the time today and uh for sharing your wisdom on what can be, again, a make or break topic for a lot of nonprofits. So hopefully this conversation opens the doors for some better ground moving forward. Thanks for being here.
SPEAKER_02:Awesome. Thank you, Megan. Thanks for having me. We enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. This has been another episode of the Nonprofit Hub Radio podcast. I'm your host, Megan Spear, and we'll see you next time.