Nonprofit Hub Radio
Whether starting a nonprofit or taking an existing cause to the next level, The Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast is about breaking down how nonprofits can grow. Each episode features an interview with a sector star with insight, stories, or ideas that can take your nonprofit from good to excellence. Join host Meghan Speer every week to make your good go further!
Nonprofit Hub Radio
Nonprofit Growth Without Losing the Mission
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Nonprofit Hub Radio sits down with James Ryzhkov, Head of Growth at Bezalel Lab, to explore what it really takes to "double" a nonprofit without turning the mission into a spreadsheet goal. The conversation challenges KPI-first thinking, digs into the leadership and clarity problems that block growth, and offers practical ways to build focus, systems, and a message donors can actually repeat.
James Ryzhkov is the Head of Growth at Bezalel Lab, where he pairs a technology background with a strategic outlook on the nonprofit sector. His focus is closing the gap between the meaningful work nonprofits do and the systems they need to grow it sustainably.
Get free nonprofit professional development resources, connections to cause work peers, and more at https://nonprofithub.org
Sponsor Message From Feather
SPEAKER_01If your nonprofit is trying to promote an event, grow donations, reach new supporters, or just stay top of mind, Feather Can Help. It's the marketing platform built for nonprofits and one we use here at Nonprofit Hub. Learn more at feather.co. That's feather, f eat h r.co.
Meet James And The Big Goal
SPEAKER_01Welcome back to the Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast. I'm your host, Megan Speer, joined today by James Richcoff, who is the head of growth at Bizzelel Labs. I am so excited about this conversation because did you ever just meet somebody and you just know that they are your kind of person? I this is how I felt in my conversation with James. As soon as we started talking, we just, it's very clear we say have the same like heart and passion for nonprofit organizations. And so I am just excited to get to share that with you all today. So James, welcome in. Thanks for joining me.
SPEAKER_00Thanks, Megan. It's uh it's a privilege and pleasure. Uh, I think our conversation will be interesting to some of your viewers for sure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm excited about this. Okay, so tell the audience a little bit about yourself and your background that kind of brought us to the point of having this conversation today.
SPEAKER_00For sure, for sure. I mean, you hit it on the spot. Uh, we we have this mutual uh understanding and heart for mission organizations, for nonprofits, mission-driven organizations. And um, I feel like that's exactly my story. That's why I'm here. And ultimately, I just feel this big blessing uh that every day I get to work with these type of organizations, and it really, it really brings me up every single day. And that's that's really what it is. Uh to see the change that we're able to, like if we're able to help an organization, a nonprofit organization grow to double, that's honestly the that's what keeps me going. Uh, it's not, it's not about the the commercial aspect, which is uh is another topic of how far the nonprofit industry has has gone from being just compelled by that internal motivation value. So I see that in you. But for for how Deslow really started, it's really seeing the 10 to 15 year gap between all the big companies, all the big tech companies, the big marketing agencies, everyone who knows how to convert, if you will. So I come from a little bit of an e-commerce background. My education is like in systems and architecture and computer science, and kind of being around in that realm of the best technologies in the world. And then also my dad, my dad and my parents are actually out of seas right now. They're they're missionaries and they're serving, and he's also a minister, my dad. So being in the center of you know, from childhood, seeing how nonprofits work. My my church specifically had a lot of things going on with with like youth programs, camps. So I was heavily involved with a project called Chance Youth. Uh, but in general, just looking looking at the nonprofit sector, it kind of was stunning to me that how is it possible that the best organizations that do the most meaningful work in the world are so far behind? And that's kind of when the the click happened. Hey, I want to be a part of something that can change that, uh, given my tech abilities and uh and and really strategic outlook of how I see that sector. But we have a big goal, uh, 10 to 15, 20 years. We're in we're in this for the long term. We want to see a lot of things change for the better. So uh that's kind of what gets us up every day.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome. I love that. So, okay, so that's
What Doubling Really Means
SPEAKER_01kind of where we're gonna start our discussion today because I'm not sure if everyone heard it, but there was a word that you used, a very simple word called double, right? And it's I know it's a passion point for you in terms of helping organizations to grow, right? I would assume that there are plenty of executive directors, fundraising professionals, etc., who are who have heard me say this now, and they're like, oh, I that sounds great. I'm curious in your opinion, right? Because before we can get to a place where we can double, we've really got to start with everybody's why, right? And the the mission itself, right? And I'm so I'm curious when we when we talk about scaling and growth, I think to me that's the part I see we don't even have a definition of what we want that to look like, right? So I'm curious when you start working with a client, where do you start in that process? Because we're not gonna double overnight, right? We're not gonna scale our fundraising to an nth degree overnight. Where do you start to help folks realize maybe how to how to articulate the why and get themselves kind of on the right track to be able to do that?
SPEAKER_00That's a that's a that's a great question. I think it's important to uh to define double and I'll tell you this one thing. Obviously, we have metrics, financial metrics, KPIs that we look at in order to really do A-B test and to see if we could deliver, uh, and to you know, then see in hindsight, you know, how what things went well, what things we could have improved on. Uh, I don't want to belittle that because that's obviously necessary. You want to see the dollar amount in the in terms of your resources grow. But I've learned one thing.
When KPIs Replace The Why
SPEAKER_00If the organization doesn't have a why past a financial or a KPI or a statistic that they're kind of going for, yeah, everything breaks. Um, and this is kind of what I led into is like I see this, it's a disturbing trend of like simply getting you know chief development officers on board and then they're just looking at that, just only that alone. Um, but that won't get you that far. And that's that commercialization that is happening to the nonprofit sector where they're just hey, sitting in the office and all they're talking about is hey, how do we get this number up? How do we get this? How do we get our average you know, retention? How do we get uh more reoccurring? And those are good questions, but that's like if you feel that that is if I feel on a call that that's literally the the main driving factor, I feel like that is one of the uh when we started to one of the five assumptions that we have that kills growth. Um and you know, donors can feel that when they're doing their outreaches, when they're doing their calls, when they're building their relationships, they can feel that desperation to just get another check or something like that. So that comes down to number one, we want to make sure they understand their why, their strategy in place that goes around their main mission. So for someone that might be like sometimes we have we have clients that come and they're like, hey, we need to get from three to five million for this new campaign. And then uh I'm like, okay, we have like a 30-minute conversation, and I haven't heard one time it's like, why will the extra two million, why do you need it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, why does it matter?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, why does it matter? I and I haven't heard it one time. And I could just imagine, you know, them sitting across the table with a significant donor that has two million dollars that they can give.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00And I don't think they would be compelled. And uh, so I think it's a disservice. I think it's uh from a faith perspective, I think it's not even wise to do something. Um, it's not wise to be on staff, which is fine for a nonprofit organization, but then not do it for the right motivation, because then obviously you're not gonna get that reward when we see the Lord. So I feel like it's just not it's not wise and it's a disservice. That's kind of how I feel about it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think you touched on something that a lot of folks struggle with, which is we just need more without the real vision, right? And I think my struggle has always been with folks when they were like, yeah, we we just need more money. If we had more money, I'm like, yes, but what are you gonna do? Help me understand what you want to do with it and what that that difference can make. So I really appreciate that call out. I'm curious, as you, again, as you work with folks to help understand this concept. When you approach a client who maybe is is struggling with that, how do we help? Are there consistent mistakes that you see them make? Like, if are there consistent pieces when you walk into an organization, they're like, man, if people would just stop doing this, uh my job would get a whole lot easier, right? That maybe we could have like an eye-opening moment for some folks here today.
Founder Bottlenecks And Lost Focus
SPEAKER_00I feel like in regards to seeing that why, that that's kind of what we're focused on. I feel like one of the main hindrances in that is it's really two things. It's the founder itself or the CEO, uh, depending on the on the organization. It's either a a founder that is trying to act as a, you know, again, my background is system and architecture. So I think in like pipelines, and if you can imagine like a CPU, which is like a the central processing unit of a computer, okay. You know, there's there's there's a clock, and then there's the actual pipeline and CPU and everything, the cache registers, everything that runs. And in order for the computer to operate correctly, there's a clock that, you know, and it's measured in gigahertz. I think mine is an Apple M1, which I love. I think it's like it's super efficient, but it's a 3.2 gigahertz. But the point being is that you have a clock that is supposed to synchronize all the processes in the in the pipeline in order to have efficient and successful processes so you don't have any loss. So you can, you know, you have an end goal, let's say it might be some arithmetic operation. In order for that to succeed, you have a clock that starts an operation, it synchronizes, and then everything goes through a pipeline. So I feel like one of the big issues that I see is the founder or the CEO, might be the CEO that is just super focused on themselves and they think that they're the processing unit and they're supposed to solve everything. And they might have some type of vision in their head, but it's not laid out. There's not a there's no clear strategy of who we are, our vision statement, mission statement that no one besides them or they might not even understand it, but the team is definitely not aware. And what's the point of having a team, a collective organization of people if they're not aligned with the same goal? So I feel like that's that's a big issue that a lot of founders have, especially I see this as an issue when the founder retires and there's a new CEO and the founder didn't do a good job of passing that down. Uh, I feel like that's a huge issue. And then that's kind of where I see we've come in a lot to really put things back, especially and also when there's like when there were like it's a 50-year-long organization, they they've been established since like 1970 or 1960s, and they've had a lot of different leadership people that have added their own taste and direction in the organization, and then a new CEO comes up and they're like, uh, so what are we about again? Yeah, and and they've added so many different things, and it's really tough to have a compelling marketing uh message when there's like 50 different things you do, and it's kind of like looking for the next opportunity in order to just get someone to sign a check or to give. Um I feel like yeah, the founder is a big issue. And then secondly, um really not having that on paper flow chart. Hey, this is the problems that we're fixing. Um, this is this is how we're addressing it. These are the three types of people that we're going to be helping out, you know, not considering the donor, but their actual mission. And then having having a very clear flow chart that they can print on the wall if they want, if they're looking at different opportunities. Another big issue that I see is like there has to be a balance between when you have a new opportunity to come and looking at it in terms of like who are we? Is this something that we should focus our resources and time and energy? Is this going to help what we're called to do?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00So that's a lack of focus as well. So it's just it's it's a complication of things, but I think it comes from the founder and not having a clear defined strategy that is visible for everyone almost as if it needs to be on the wall.
Sponsor Break From Feather
SPEAKER_01You wear a lot of hats. Getting the word out about your mission shouldn't have to be the hardest one. That's why this episode is sponsored by Feather, a nonprofit marketing platform that helps organizations reach the right people, promote campaigns and events, and understand what's working. We use Feather here at Nonprofit Hub2, because staying visible and connected matters when you're trying to grow your impact. To see how Feather can help make your marketing simpler and your impact bigger, visit feather.co. That's feather f e a t-h.co.
Run Nonprofits Like A Business
SPEAKER_01You are touching on something that I have said repeatedly on the podcast uh over the years. Uh, and it's probably if anyone has listened for any length of time, it's probably a sentence that they're they're sick of me saying, but I will continue. It is the hill on which I will die. Uh, and that is nonprofit is just a tax status. You still have to run it like a business. And I feel like everything you outlined just highlights that point. Right. Where I feel like sometimes we get so stuck in the mission, in the that we're doing good work that we do forget about all of those process pieces and the the clarity of messaging and marketing and the clarity of process and the clarity of direction, all of those have to be just kind of innately built into the structure. But we sometimes let that go. And so I really appreciate that call-out because it really does highlight the importance of kind of the business-minded thinking in the midst of mission-driven work. And those two things, at least in my estimation, you can feel free to disagree with me, have to go hand in hand, right? Where one can't get bigger than the other, or then we get we get lopsided in how we're gonna be able to move forward.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I fully agree with you. Um there there is a balance, like I said, the I do see a trend of commercialization, which is kind of a different thing. Um, yes, a nonprofit needs to run, they need to have every all the all the things, and actually more. I think it's more difficult sometimes to run a nonprofit because even from a and this is kind of that business word, like a selling perspective, you have to sell two things. If let's say you go on on an Amazon or something, their sole job is to sell you that sneaker. Yeah, that's it. Uh, a nonprofit is kind of doing two things. You're trying to sell something to the donor of like why should they specifically give, and then you're you're really selling your mission. So you're trying to, you're you the donor needs to have some type of benefit, which is another trend that I see of like having social proof specifically of why it's so good for me for to be a part of giving to this organization. So that's so I think it's actually even more difficult. You have to utilize business principles and more. But in terms of the negative trend of commercialization, which I see and I don't like, not to name like names of specific companies or missions or or organizations that I feel like are utilizing this, like I I I prefaced before, the 10 to 15 year gap uh the nonprofits are really in in terms of the current market, yeah. Utilizing that for for a different purpose and different motivations and not really caring about the mission because the whole the end goal is we're trying to we're trying to get we're trying to bring good to the world and uh I believe expanding the kingdom of God.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, that's
Advice For Newer Team Members
SPEAKER_01great. Within that structure, because I we do have so I I would say in the podcast, we have we have both, right? We have the executive leaders, we have the C-suite folks that are running the ship, but we also have a lot of folks who are maybe newer to their careers within the space, especially in the fundraising space. We had a lot of folks in the fundraising and marketing development side of the house that are podcast listeners, check us out every week. If they find themselves maybe in a situation where they're like, oh my gosh, you just described my organization. Like, that's the exact tension I'm feeling. What's your encouragement to folks who maybe aren't who are newer in their career and trying to drive change within an organization like that, maybe without the leadership to do so or the title to do so? Uh, what's your encouragement to those folks?
SPEAKER_00I'm a big believer, at least here at Basilel. You know, my answer is I hope that you're an A-player. Uh because this is what A-players do. We work with A-players, my team is all A-players. A player is the person who doesn't wait on leadership to get a command uh and to kind of get off their shoulders and then they can kind of do their own thing and kind of just uh relax in the in the soft ocean of a stable paycheck that they get. You know what I mean? So that's not that's not an A-player. So I hope that the person listening is an A-player, and I assume they are because they're listening to the podcast. You have to take, you have to take control and you have to take initiative. Uh, you have to grow, you have to look at, not wait for like an SOP, a standard operating procedure from a leader. You define those. And I say it like this: like, hey, if you want to become in that leadership position, you need to be in that role where you are today, uh, from the perspective of you need to be in that from in that perspective that, hey, I'm going to be here today to try to make a replacement for my role. So I'm I'm creating standard operating procedures, I'm uh doing a lot of research so that if I were to get promoted to a leadership role, we're gonna have growth because I've already defined, I've already created uh all these documents so someone can onboard quickly. And uh that's that's what an A-player does. And if you've accepted, you need to excel at that specific role, be the best, be the absolute best person and uh best worker in that specific position, and you'll you'll get to leadership eventually. So it's it's you gotta you always have to think about this in the long term. It's very easy to say, hey, my leadership is not good. They're like 50, 15 years behind, they're not doing the right things, look at these guys, and then you know that that positioning and that that attitude is gonna create more uh more issues within the organization, and that's going to hinder growth as well. We're all about growth, we need to have growth. The best thing that you could do is take care of yourself and and in the jurisdiction that you have within the organization.
SPEAKER_01That's so good.
Bringing Best Work To Mission
SPEAKER_01Okay, starting to run out of time, but I do want to ask this what's your favorite part of the work that you do? Because I know like having had conversations with you, I know you're so passionate about helping these organizations, and I know like that heart and mission that drives the work that you do, and even the conversation that we're having, people can hear it. What's your favorite part?
SPEAKER_00That's tough. That's tough because I like again. I said like my background is technical. I like yeah, I like to see when we're bringing the best stuff. I like to say, like, a Mozart and three, four centuries ago, that period when we had like Beethoven, Mozart, all this. The Christian culture was the culture, it was at the front forefront. Yeah. I don't think that's no longer the case. So I love it. It brings me great joy and satisfaction when I see that I'm bringing the best possible frameworks, technology, work into a mission-driven organization. That's number one. But I feel like also I mean, I don't think this is my main motivation, but when I hear an organization say, hey, like you guys actually understood us. Like we tried this other, this other, these other guys, and they've been they they've kind of just looked at the dollar amount, they didn't really care about who we were. I mean, there there has not been one project yet that we haven't that we have not overspent our time. We always try to over-deliver. And I feel like, and that's not by design, that's just by who we are. We just want to we're trying to perfect it. Yeah. It's a it's that's definitely not like uh the CFO is not happy about that.
SPEAKER_01But um, but nor do you want, nor do you want them to be.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, but yeah, I'm kind of okay with it. And from I'm always like, okay, yeah, yeah, we'll we'll consider that in the next project. We'll make sure that we can uh kind of look, but it's it always pops up, and that's fine. That's kind of that that thing that I've I've assumed as as part of my not job, but my my ministry. Yeah. Going back to this is the reason uh you know, I love the company name, Bezilel, which comes from Exodus 31. And uh Bezilel was the first, you know, why why why is this important to me? Why does this why is it so exciting? Is because Bezilel was the first person in scripture that the Spirit of God dwelled on a person. And that person that where it says the spirit of God was on him, and that person is not a priest. That person was a creative, that person was someone who was, you know, there's six qualities that are mentioned in Exodus 31. That's what really gets me excited. When I see that God is using this company and through us, uh in and with creative abilities that are helping these organizations grow. I mean, come on. We're sitting here, we're sitting here, we're based here in Atlanta, and then when we hear like, hey, things are happening in in uh Eastern Europe and uh Island of Hispaniola in uh South South America, all these different things, and you know, we're just sitting here in our office clicking on our keyboards, having phone calls, drawing uh, you know, diagrams and stuff like that, and that's impacting real lives. Come on. Yeah. That's amazing.
SPEAKER_01It's that's so cool to be a part of.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I I mean, I always say I have the I have the best job.
SPEAKER_01So well, I mean, I would fight you on that. I because that is also what I tell everyone.
SPEAKER_00Hey, we're we're we're in a similar similar.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we're in the fight together because yeah. My job is just to tell or to help nonprofits get the the skills and resources that they need to do their work better and continue to impact the world. I seriously, what better job could there be? Except maybe yours.
SPEAKER_02Maybe.
How To Connect With Bizzelel
SPEAKER_01Okay, so given that description, if somebody wanted to learn more about the company, about you, how what's the best way to connect or follow up to learn more?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think we're always open to have a conversation with anyone who's interested. I will say we we care about results and we want to work with people or that can that are really at that point where, hey, we've tried a lot of things. We're we want to get to the next step.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00There have to be at least a team of three because we want to have a team that can start to run and have that firepower. Uh, but if you're if you're one of those guys that are that are really thinking about, I think the best way is just to go on the website, uh, book a book a like a 30-minute just intro call to see if we're fit. We want to we want to make sure that we can help you guys uh and there's no obviously no strings attached, uh, no obligations. It's just just so we can learn about you and you guys can learn about our process and give you a few secrets here and there that we can give you on the call on the spot. So uh that's the best thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I
One Book That Sharpens Messaging
SPEAKER_01love it. Okay, James, as we wrap up, we have dubbed 2026 here on the podcast as the year of learning. Uh, mostly because I am a giant book dork, and so I am always looking for more recommendations of things to read. So I'm curious what you would add to the list. What would be on your everyone should read this book list?
SPEAKER_00I feel like the first thing that comes to my head, I mean, I love I love reading a lot of different books on different topics like HR and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_01However, you might be the only one. I don't know that anyone that I've interviewed so far on the podcast this year said, I love reading books on HR.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's a huge that's a that's a big deal. If if you're if a nonprofit is under the team of five, the first five people that they hire is going to decide really the decide the future of that organization. So I think that's a huge deal. But I feel like that the number one book that I feel like I would recommend would be Story Brand by Donald Miller.
SPEAKER_01Donald Miller.
SPEAKER_00And that's a that's a fantastic book. And it's it's really it's integrated in our process of how we approach uh our clients and really clearing up their marketing message. It's it's it's a it's an essential book, I feel like, that everyone needs to read, everyone to be in line, in order uh for you not to put people on a treadmill every time you talk about your organization, which is what the book is really its focus is on, because with our declining attention span in today's attention economy, not being straightforward and clear about your marketing message and your mission is probably the most destructive thing that can be present in your nonprofit organization. So I feel like that book alone is probably that that one book that if you read it and if you really think about it, how how to integrate it in your nonprofit, it's gonna give it's gonna be a game changer.
SPEAKER_01Well, and it it so encapsulates what you have already said, right? Is no one's gonna give you more money if you can't tell them the story of what you're gonna do with it, right? And paint that picture. So yeah, I think Story Brand definitely echoes your call throughout this whole episode. So it's yeah, that's a good fit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Closing Thoughts And Next Time
SPEAKER_00For sure.
SPEAKER_01James, this has been great. I really appreciate the business-minded insight and uh the like the process-driven approach. Always so helpful in this sector to really understand kind of the the bigger picture and how all of those things work together. So really appreciate you coming on today to share your wisdom and uh and give us all of that lesson.
SPEAKER_00Megan, it's been my privilege, honestly, just wishing the best for all your viewers. Uh, if they can take one nugget uh from our experience, and uh I feel like we we did our job well. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00I agree.
SPEAKER_01Uh James, thank you so much. We will definitely have you back on another episode at some point because I really appreciate the insights. Uh, this has been another episode of the Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast. I'm your host, Megan Spear, and we'll see you next time.